“Facts Don’t Matter” Says The “Leftosphere”

AARP's Divided We Fail Mascot - Please notice which political animal symbol ... and part of the political animal symbol mascot (the head, with brain) has its feet firmly planted on the ground [just the facts]. - Image Credit: AARP

“Facts Don’t Matter” Says The “Leftosphere”

Facts Don’t Matter! - A stunning revelation stated almost in emphatic unison from three of the most respected and read political weblog posters presenting at Blogworld & New Media Expo.

This bold announcement came out at a lightly-attended conference module held as part of the “Political Track” at Blogworld last week.

Image Credit: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE)

The module held Friday, November 9, 2007, in a Las Vegas Convention Center conference room was entitled “Right vs Left: Who’s Winning The Battle Of The Blogosphere?” It featured a discussion panel of six political commentators (three from the conservative viewpoint and three from the liberal, uh, progressive viewpoint).

The “Right vs Left: Who’s Winning The Battle Of The Blogosphere?” panel moderated by Hugh Hewitt. Image Credit: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE)

The members of the panel included on the Right - John Hinderaker (Powerline), Dean Barnett (contributor to TownHall.com, Weekly Standard, & National Review), Henry Copeland (Pressflex, Blogads), and on the Left, Jeralyn Merritt (TalkLeft), Joe Sudbay (AMERICAblog), and Jerome Armstrong (MyDD).

Moderating the discussion panel was radio talkshow host, Hugh Hewitt. He conducted the session using a question / answer approach that allowed panel members to answer each question in rotation. The subject matter was very interesting, the questions posed by Hugh Hewitt were very probative, and the panel members responded with surprising candor.

Midway through the event, audience participation was encouraged intermittently, with questions and additional comments coming from the floor.

Daily KOS Logo - Image Credit: Daily KOS via Wikipedia

Even though the audience for the “Right vs Left: Who’s Winning” session was lightly attended, the members in the audience included some of the most notable political players in the “Blogosphere”, including representatives from Red State and contributors to Pajamas Media. Perhaps the most outspoken audience figure was Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, founder of Daily KOS, who assumed a bit of a role as frequent “admonisher of the moderator” and additional spokesperson for the left.

Pajamas Media podium logo used at the Blogworld & New Media Expo tradeshow floor. Image Credit: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE)

Among the more interesting topics discussed:

1. New Media (NM) and Mainstream Media (MSM) - How can new media superstars be brought together with mainline old media? Or are we looking at an Echo Chamber VS. Monopoly situation?

During this discussion, it was unanimously observed that the Left has a distinct edge over the Right. With only four (4) Rightist bloggers in Washington D.C. and thirty (30) Leftist bloggers, panelists agreed that the Leftist bloggers are better organized and more collaborative, helping the Left to widely communicate its positions. The New Media portal strength of the Drudge Report was also seen as a factor in limiting the growth of Rightist bloggers in D.C.

Panelists seemed to agree that activities of the new media world are distinct, and pointed to the social impact of “blog swarms”, “action alerts” and eventual movement of new issues from the new media world over into the mainstream media world. It was never made clear who the initiator of the message really is … MSM or NM.

Image Credit: Townhall.com & Hugh Hewitt

2. Media’s Treatment of the War in Iraq – A question from the audience was asked, “What about the recent facts on the ground in Iraq? What happens if developments in Iraq go well? Do these facts change or color the effort to pull all of our troops out when it appears we might become victorious for the hearts and minds of the people of Iraq?”

The responses to this question from the audience member were shocking.

First to respond, Jeralyn Merritt stated, in unequivocal terms “Facts Don’t Matter!” The questioner from the audience interjected, “What? Facts don’t matter?” Merritt responded again, “That’s right. Facts Don’t Matter. We want our troops home. Until they are home, the war was just a mistake.”

Hewitt then asked the other members on the panel who were representing the Left, “Do facts matter in Iraq?”

Not only did the other two panelists from the Left (Sudbay and Armstrong) repeat the phrase in agreement, “No, the facts don’t matter”, but Daily KOS founder Markos Zuniga (from the floor) weighed in by repeating the phrase loudly, to the surprise of a few of us in the room. “No. The Facts Don’t Matter.”

The unison was stunning in its word-for-word declaration. This is more than just a talking point. It is a template.

Leftist parties present (on the panel and from the audience) repeatedly stated that 70% of the American populace want the troops out of Iraq and that the US should end the war there now without regard to any other issue.

Image Credit: BlogAds

This event was eye-opening for us at MAXINE. We suspect that the real reason the opinion weblog sites on the Left operate in unison lies in the fact that Mainstream Media is firmly based in promoting Left-of-center political viewpoints. With the MSM as a powerful and centering force, the “Leftosphere” is able to act as an unfettered and undisciplined subset, “MSM.2”.

Further, there is no such thing as an echo chamber for opinions from the Left but with this union, it is more like a megaphone or P.A. effect. The same thoughts and opinions broadcasted and then re-broadcasted through the different mediums.

One of the most disturbing developments of this POV is that on-air news personalities now feel they have to jump into blogging in order to remain relevant. This is a mistake if the MSM news outlets want to be perceived as (just the facts) Real News Outlets! If this catches on, the MSM will become a subset of … your guessed it … ITSELF!

Image Credit: AMERICAblog.com website

The above “Facts Don’t Matter” incident stands as a glaring example of the unfettered and undisciplined nature of the Leftosphere.

With this template that “Facts Don’t Matter”, it makes one wonder what other issues that affect our safety, our culture and our lives is this applied to?

It is time to think about the next election, and it is time to think about it with this “Facts Don’t Matter” template as a backdrop.

Blogworld & New Media Expo -- “Woodstock For Wordsmiths”

"Turn out the lights ... the party's over" - BlogWorld & New Media Expo 2007 show banner at night after the show. Image Credit: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE)

Blogworld & New Media Expo -- “Woodstock For Wordsmiths”

Attending a tradeshow usually becomes an exercise in real work. One attends conference modules headed up by well oiled presentations that are tightly scripted and thinly veiled attempts at a one hour advertisement of the product or service the presenter is tied to. Exhibits on the showfloor, generally, are laid out with the fortune 500 companies and/or industry leaders of the exposition's primary focus at the front of the hall, followed by dozens of “me too” offerings scattered throughout the hall. One has to turn over a lot of rocks in order to find a gem to write about or to find a new, unique approach that amazes.

Blogworld & New Media Expo was a tradeshow of a surprising and different stripe. First, this debut of a conference and exposition presented strong, established, and well defined names that operate successful media and world wide web communications platforms. Blogword then included newer technology players into the mix, and attracted an audience of over 1,500 focused and information-starved (this does not mean uninformed) weblog participants looking to become better at the craft they forge. The wealth of discovery and collaboration of this unique event was impressive.

Educational and reference resources were in abundance at the BlogWorld Bookstore. Image Credit: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE)

In the conferences, the offering of expert-presented topics was almost too much too absorb. Topics were broken down into focus tracks which helped but many of the topics overlapped, so it was impossible to get to all of the information available – kind of like one large supermarket of information. One small suggestion for future consideration --- have longer trade show visitation periods planned into the conference schedule and possibly offer the most heavily-attended sessions at more than one timeslot to allow access to more exhibitors and session topics.

Andy Beal presenting on "Integrating New Media into your Marketing Mix". Image Credit: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE)

Track titles included Beginners, Advanced, Podcasting & New Media, Entrepreneur, Monetization, Executive, Sports Blogging, Milblogging, Political, and Special Interest Sessions. Each track offered four sessions on different topics per day and, to be honest, this was a little overwhelming. For example, if one were a writer on politics and wanted to learn how to subsidize his effort, he would have trouble choosing between sessions held at the same time titled “Smart Ways To Monetize Your Blog” and “The Power Of The Political Blogosphere.” Needless to say, many choices and so little time. Perhaps that's what made it such a great event.

Hugh Hewitt broadcasting his radio talkshow live from the tradeshow floor. Image Credit: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE)

On the exhibit floor, many new and innovative software, advertising, and web community companies populated the hall, all with a great story to tell. Due to the rapid interest and growth of the social media side of the internet (Technorati currently tracks 110 million weblogs), some company efforts were showing for the first time.

TALKSHOE tradeshow booth demonstration. Anyone can easily create, join, or listen to live interaction audioblogs, podcasts, discussions, and conversations (called Talkcasts). Image Credit: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE)

Yahoo, AOL, Pajamas Media, The Truth Laid Bear, Technorati, Microsoft, Townhall.com, Blogger & Podcaster Magazine, SharedBook, ibnma – International Blogging & New Media Association, lingospot, podango, sphere, DOC’S Sports Service, Blog Talk Radio, PRWeb, and GodBlogCon were just a few of the exhibitors with strong solutions wanting to grow with this whole communications concept that has come to be known as BLOGGING.

With all the time spent absorbing information and solutions at the show one would think there would be little time to connect and network on a more human level – WRONG! On opening night, a pajama party sponsored by several industry leaders (Pajamas Media, Zune, Technorati come to mind) billed as the “World’s Largest Pajama Party” was held at “The Joint” inside the Hard Rock Hotel. Several people took the pajama challenge seriously and the crowd attitude was running high from physical community discovery. Both DJ-performed and Live Music played throughout the evening with an interruption for the 2007 Weblog Awards. Food, Fun, and Conversation were in plentiful supply as the night wound on with few people feeling pressed to end this time spent with like-minded people too early.

Weblog 2007 Video Category winner, Mary Katharine Ham. Image Credit: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE)

Yes, this first ever Blogworld & New Media Expo was a surprising success and it all goes off again next year in September 2008 right here in LA’s favorite suburb … Las Vegas.

Come one and come all to the second edition of a "Woodstock for Wordsmiths” … all the like-minded people, music, no mud!

Congratulations to all the 2007 Weblog Awardees!

















blogworld expo

VIVA, Las Vegas! – It’s A Whole New (blog) World!

Image Credit: infohostels.com

VIVA, Las Vegas! – It’s A Whole New (blog) World!

From LA, it’s just a short four hour drive across the desert with the “FM 98&99 - The Highway Stations" filling in on the background while we, at MAXINE press across the winding road to Las Vegas. Starting Wednesday, and continuing through to Friday, a “First Ever” tradeshow catering to individuals and businesses that tie at least some of their efforts to the process of communication and commerce through the computer and the internet.

Featured exhibiting enterprises include weblog advertising agencies, news source aggregators, web-metrics analysis companies, digital to analog (and back) publishers, broadcasting/podcasting audio and video enterprises, search engine and front page information tools businesses, virus security protection companies, investment opportunity enterprises, special interest blog communities, communications associations, application software developers, employment agencies, transportation companies, and website development entrepreneurs.

Beginning Wednesday, a one day conference entitled Executive & Entrepreneur Conference – followed Thursday and Friday by blogworld & New Media EXPO will highlight all that the this brave new digital communications world has to offer. The Executive & Entrepreneur Conference will host sessions that will explore subjects from “The Importance of Blogging & New Media In Your Organization/Strategic Marketing” to Search Engine Optimization: Best Practices, and includes “Going Global with New Media”.

blogworld& New Media EXPO conference continue with two more days of sessions on “Citizen Journalism & Mainstream Media” to “Smart Ways To Monetize Your Blog”, and includes “The Cult of Blogging” featuring radio talk show host, Hugh Hewitt and Blog Entrepreneur, Arianna Huffington.

On the exposition floor, recognizabe WWW. names such as YAHOO!, Microsoft, AOL, Pajamas Media, CAMPAIGNS & ELECTIONS, CLIQ, GodblogCon 2007, ibnma (International Blogging & New Media Association), Kithbridge, podango, PRWeb, SharedBook, SOUTHWEST Airlines, sphere, Technorati, and Townhall to mention a few will all be trying to capture the attention of and create a greater sense of community with - The Blogger. Surrounding activities include a private pre-release movie premiere of Grace Hill Media’s “Kite Runner” with a question and answer session with the star of the movie moderated by respected movie critic and radio talk show host, Michael Medved.

This from Grace Hill Media -

Image Credit: ecj via Grace Hill Media

And a major sponsor pajama party at “The Joint” at the Hard Rock Hotel! This from Pajamas Media -

What Happens at Blog World Stays at Blog World
Posted At Pajamas Media 11-07-2007

On Thursday and Friday, bloggers and blog readers will assemble at the Las Vegas Convention Center for the first annual Blog World Expo. In addition to the non-stop panels, a “Pajama Party” will be held Thursday night at the Hard Rock Hotel. Among the Pajamahadeen on hand: Glenn Reynolds, Roger L. Simon, Rick Moran, Stephen Green, Ed Driscoll and Aaron Hanscom. Read more about the festivities, prizes, and (yes) showgirls…

TRUEVIEW EVENTS - Murder Mystery days, Murder Mystery dinners, Murder Mystery teambuilding events. Film Making days, Advert making days, Treasure Hunts, and many more teambuilding activities. Image Credit: Trueview Events in association with Pajamas Media

It’s Vegas, after all, and when in Rome… Showgirls wearing Pajamas Media sashes. At the Pajamas Media booth, comic Evan Sayet will be holding forth as the “White House Press Secretary” twice a day. Visitors to the booth get a free Pajamas Media sleep mask. And those who are bold enough to hold their own Press Conference have a chance to win an iPod!
Reference Here>>

A new effort that helps to find relevant information, posts, and Direct Media efforts and evaluate them is Kithbridge. At the show, during lunch, Kithbridge software search and display solutions found blog posts that featured blogworld & New Media EXPO which had been published to the web Wednesday morning and placed then in letter by letter motion on screens in the hall for everyone to see. Here is a video example of this post being displayed through the Kithbridge demo over the lunch break.

The point of all of this is to allow the people who participate in this relatively new pursuit of weblog-ing and associated world wide web activity to come together as a community and share in this like minded effort to mix/mingle and communicate. It's kind'a like a "Woodstock for Wordsmiths" ...

blogworld expo

The Real Survivor Fiji - Plots Alleged

2007 Pacific People - Commodore Josaia Voreqe Bainimarama - Interim Prime Minister Government of Fiji -- B. 27 April 1954 VILL. Kiuva, Tailevu HS Marist Brothers High School UNIV. Fiji Institute of Technology, Second Mate Qualification; Junior Command and Staff College, RNZAF CHURCH Methodist EXP. Joined Royal Fiji Military Forces Naval Division 1975; Appointed Commander Officer Fiji Navy 1988; Chief of Staff Republic of Fiji Military Forces 1997; Commander of Fiji Military Forces 1999. BOARDS Fiji Rugby Union HOBBIES All sports especially rugby union and athletics, military history, current affairs. SPOUSE Maria Makitalena CHILD 6 -- Caption & Image Credit: Pacific Magazine

The Real Survivor Fiji - Plots Alleged

When someone takes over a country by force one might expect that others who do not agree with this action outside of democracy … resort to the same tactics in removing an illegal leader from power.

Paranoia strikes deep in a regime that takes power without the consent of the people and the rule of law. The longer this military dictatorship remains in power … the more paranoid this leadership will become.

Commodore Frank is unable to distinguish between what is good for Frank and what is good for democracy.

At this rate, this leadership-by-paranoia style of Commodore Frank means that Fiji will not be able to expect to see elections anytime soon … especially by 2009!

Heaven forbid that ANY tourist happens to voice an off-the-cuff opinion about democracy verses forced military rule in a mixed crowd of Fijians … one might just find themselves hurt because they - - (quote excerpted from AP article) suffered "minor injuries'' when he resisted arrest!

This item excerpted from the Associated Press via the Guardian Unlimited (UK) -

3 Charged in Plot to Kill Fiji Ruler
By PITA LIGAIULA - Associated Press Writer - Monday November 5, 2007 12:01 PM

SUVA, Fiji (AP) - Authorities said Monday they have arrested 16 people and charged three of them with treason in an alleged conspiracy to assassinate Fiji's military leader, while Australia and New Zealand angrily rejected suggestions they were involved.

The 16 people were arrested over the weekend in what police said was a foiled plot by dissident troops and others against army chief Commodore Frank Bainimarama. The military leader seized power in a bloodless coup in December and declared himself interim prime minister of the Pacific island nation.

Police commissioner Esala Teleni declined to identify the three charged Monday with treason, inciting mutiny and conspiracy to murder. He said a fourth man, New Zealand businessman Ballu Khan, also would be charged in the plot when he is released from a hospital.
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"We have successfully blocked any threat to the government, the community and the safety and well-being of tourists in this country,'' he said in a statement. The island chain is a popular tourist destination.

Teleni said Sunday that the alleged plotters included local politicians who wanted to foment an insurgency. He pointed to possible involvement of "foreign governments" - likely meaning Australia and New Zealand - and suggested that money was funneled to plotters through private aid groups.

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer called the allegations "completely absurd."

New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark rejected Teleni's suggestions as "wild statements" and said the plot allegations were a pretext to round up Bainimarama's opponents.

Western nations have urged Bainimarama to restore Fiji's democracy after he imposed a monthlong state of emergency in September. Fiji has a history of turbulent politics, including two coups in 1987 and another in 2000.

Bainimarama blamed the latest plot, allegedly involving arms and explosives, on "disgruntled groups'' affected by the government's anti-corruption program.

"Such people have the potential to go to extremes in undermining the work which the interim government has been mandated to undertake," he said Monday.
Reference Here>>

Is the crackdown on "disgruntled groups" - as Commodore Frank calls them - or is the government anti-corruption program effort really an anti-democracy program?

Somebody Tell "Morning Joe" About The Memo

HULU website "Browse Page" -Image Credit: Press Kit provided by HULU website

Somebody Tell "Morning Joe" About The Memo

Somebody tell the really bad replacement broadcast for the Don Imus Show, cable simulcast timeslot aired on MSNBC - Morning Joe, that they need to quit hammering on FOX News Channel and the FOX broadcast personalities. While you are at it, teach Keith Olberman to read as well.

What the memo said is that NBC Universal (parent company of MSNBC) and News Corporation (parent company of FOX News) are now business partners in a new service venture to debut on the internet and compete with YouTube and Google Video.

The memo is in the form of a formal press release announcing Hulu.

HULU LOGO - Image Credit: Press Kit provided by HULU website

This excerpted from the HULU Press Release –

HULU DEBUTS VIA PRIVATE BETA AND ON DISTRIBUTION PARTNERS
AOL, COMCAST, MSN, MYSPACE AND YAHOO!

COMPANY ANNOUNCES MAJOR LICENSING DEALS WITH METRO-GOLDWYN-MAYER STUDIOS INC. AND SONY PICTURES TELEVISION

PROVIDENCE EQUITY PARTNERS MAKES STRATEGIC INVESTMENT IN
NEWS CORPORATION/NBC UNIVERSAL ONLINE VIDEO JOINT VENTURE

LOS ANGELES, October 29, 2007 – Hulu today announced the beta launch of its online video service, offering viewers a vast selection of streaming, on-demand, premium programming on a free, ad-supported basis. Hulu content includes full-length current and archived television programming as well as clips and an initial selection of feature films.
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"Consumers are clearly interested in easily accessing a broad spectrum of programming," said Peter Chernin, president and chief operating officer, News Corporation. "As a single source of free, on-demand programming from some of the most popular studios and online networks, Hulu helps consumers quickly and easily find and enjoy the premium content they are looking for."

“NBC Universal is excited to give consumers the flexibility to enjoy our most popular shows online when, where and how they want,” said Jeff Zucker, president and chief executive officer, NBC Universal. “Hulu’s clean and crisp destination site, broad distribution network, and embeddable video player make for a powerful combination and will provide substantial reach to consumers online.”
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“Hulu is bringing together a wide array of premium content that will engage audiences and meet their rapidly growing demand for quality online video,” said Jonathan M. Nelson, chief executive officer of Providence. “We are pleased to partner with News Corporation, NBC Universal and Jason and his talented team to support Hulu’s growth.”

Dedicated to providing users with an enhanced online video experience, Hulu.com offers an elegant interface that makes content the central focus. At the same time, innovative features allow users to enjoy, share, and embed videos in new and exciting ways. The beta period will give users an opportunity to test the service and provide valuable feedback which will help to shape the Hulu service.

To sign up for the private beta, users can go to http://www.hulu.com.
Reference Here>>

We, at MAXINE, plead with the management and talent of both News Corporation and NBC Universal to bury the hatchet on negative and competitive rhetoric in the name of business partnership.

Your efforts are now linked in a family of entertainment based companies and we hope that you show this partnership spirit in your broadcast content now and in the future.

Truth is, over the course of this last month, the Morning Joe broadcast wouldn’t have much to say outside of what they read directly (into the camera) from major newspapers if it weren’t for the existence of Media Matters created gossip and News Corporation success, so this request will probably strike them as out-of-bounds. All we are really asking, we suppose, is that Morning Joe just read the papers.

And this from the HULU website -

Hulu's ambitious and never-ending mission is to help you find and enjoy the world's premium content when, where and how you want it. We hope to provide you with the web's most comprehensive selection of premium programming across all genres and formats – television shows, feature films, clips, and more. Additionally, we want to give you more choices of when and where you can enjoy your favorite programming, while creating innovative experiences that let you watch and participate in online video in new and exciting ways.

We realize not everyone will have access to the Hulu.com beta on day one, so we've taken some screenshots to give you a sneak peak at the Hulu.com experience.
Reference Here>>

With this announcement of HULU, Morning Joe and FOX are friends, sort of … THAT is “what we learned today!”

Running Springs Smolders | Damage Assessed

Comparison Fire Map -- Comparing the 2003 Old Fire burn with the 2007 Butler Peak, Green Valley, and Slide fires in the San Bernardino National Forest. Old Fire (Grey area), Butler 2 (Yellow) and Slide/Grass/Devore fires. (Orange). Unknown what orange area is near San Bernardino. Image Credit: USDA Forest Service

Running Springs Smolders Damage Assessed
(Last Updated November 1, 2007)

THE SLIDE FIRE IS NOW 100% CONTAINED WITH 12,759 ACRES BURNED.THE GRASS VALLEY FIRE IS 100% CONTAINED WITH 1,247 ACRES BURNED.

The San Bernardino County Assessor Reports 451 Structures Lost Due to Slide and Grass Valley Fires, 67 Damaged

At MAXINE, We Offer Our Prayers And Good Wished To All Those Who Have Had Loss And For All Those Who Worked To Save And Inform Throughout This Fire Emergency Incident In The San Bernardino National Forest.

This from KBHR 93.3FM (11-1-07) -

San Bernardino National Forest to Remain Closed Until We Get Rain or Snow The San Bernardino National Forest does remain closed, not just as a result of the Slide and Grass Valley Fires, but also in anticipation of more Santa Ana winds this weekend.

John Miller of the U.S. Forest Service tells KBHR, “Closing the forest is a preventative measure because it's a fact that most fires are human caused, and by that I don't necessarily mean arson.” The U.S. Forest Service has already pre-positioned crews throughout Southern California's forested areas, as an added preventative measure, should Santa Ana winds kick up this weekend.

Though the Big Bear area's Serrano Campground, Alpine Pedal Path and Juniper Point are open, Miller notes, “We are not going to reopen the forest until we get a significant amount of rain or snow.”

UPDATE October 30, 2007 -

Per San Bernardino County: 352 Properties Destroyed, 59 Damaged;
Grass Valley Visit for Evacuees Tuesday The County of San Bernardino has released information on properties damaged or destroyed by the Slide and Grass Valley Fire

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The County Assessor's Office has released damage reports.
Lake Arrowhead
Green Valley Lake
Running Springs, Enchanted Forest, Smiley Park, Crab Flats

Source: http://www.co.san-bernardino.ca.us/assessor/
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This daily posting series on the wildland fires in the San Bernardino National Forest should be the last unless circumstances change on the ground for the worse.

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Today (Day 7) finds that great improvement has taken place on both fires with the Grass Valley Fire containment set at 95%, and the target containment date is expected today – the Slide Fire has a 'growth potential' noted as reduced to Medium and there was precipitation on several areas of the fire. Current Situation: Total Personnel 2,129 Size 12,789 acres Percent Contained 65%.

The best news is that the first damage assessments have been released on the some of the 300+ structures and located at a link provided by the county of San Bernardino.

Slide Fire Perimeter Oct 27 – Image Credit: US Forest Service

This excerpt was posted at FIREupdate.com –

Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 3:08 AM - INLAND EMPIRE

The first official list of burned homes from the San Bernardino County Assessors Office is here.

The fact that it took this long to get this list out is pathetic. I would hope that all of you express your feelings about the battened disregard for evacuees rights to know what the government knows of this subject to be expressed. This is the second time that the decided on their own to keep secrets from the general public. There needs to be a better system. There needs to be a better way. Last time, everyone got pissed off and then they forgot about it. Don't let it happen again. Why should they not tell the public for days on end when they know such things.

I understand not letting information public when it could be in accurate. But keeping it from people when it's incomplete is not right.

I don't even live anywhere close to a burn area but I stay up night and day trying to get the information out there. The fact that elected officials work against me and all others who are trying to get the information out is horrible.
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If I offended anyone by publishing burn reports before the official report came out then please let me know. I talked to many people who lost their homes in the last week. It's not easy. But I believe that the information I provided was beneficial. I know that officials of the county and state know exactly who I am and I know that they don't like the way I do things. Ranger Al was told a couple years ago that he would be the first one escorted off the mountain if this would ever happen again.

We may have had a muzzle put over our mouth this time but I hope that enough other people took the reigns this time.

In 2003 this website was established to inform evacuees what was going on in their community when officials wouldn't tell them. In 2007, we proved that nothing has changed.
Reference Here>>

We, at MAXINE, will post links to additional damage assessments here in this post as they are released.

Rim Of The World - Home List
(lists received from eyewitness reports and homeowners)

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PHOTO GALLERY
(click on gallery folders for photo evidence - EX. the one that says "grass and slide fire home survey"...)

The Fire Advances in Deep Creek from Valkyrie in Running Springs Slide Fire 10/25/07 – Image Credit: ROTW Photo Gallery (“grass and slide fire home survey”)

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Link Button For County Assessor Reports - Update #5: 10/28/2007 4:40pm

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This Slide and Green Valley Wildland Fire summary update from InciWeb –

Incident -- Contained -- Acres -- Updated

Slide ---------- 65% ----- 12,789 -- 9:00pm PT 10-27-07

Grass Valley - 95% ------- 1,140 -- 9:00pm PT 10-27-07

Summary (Slide Wildland Fire)

Mandatory Evacuation for east of Crestline to Snow Valley. Voluntary evacuations in place for Crestline, Cedar Pines Park, Lake Gregory and Valley of Enchantment. Voluntary evacuation for Highland has been lifted. Evacuation Centers are located at National Orange Show in San Bernardino and the Victorville Fairgrounds in Victorville. All highways in the San Bernardino Mountains west of Big Bear Dam are closed to upbound traffic except for those with Sheriff's passes to voluntary areas. Access to Big Bear is via Hwy 38 from I-10 in Redlands or from Hwy 18 through the Hi-Desert in Lucerne Valley.

Summary (Grass Valley Wildland Fire)

Fire is northwest of Lake Arrowhead. Mandatory Evacuation for east of Crestline to Snow Valley. Voluntary evacuations in place for Crestline, Cedar Pines Park, Lake Gregory and Valley of Enchantment. Evacuation Centers are located at National Orange Show in San Bernardino and the Victorville Fairgrounds in Victorville. All highways in the San Bernardino Mountains west of Big Bear Dam are closed to upbound traffic except for those with Sheriff's passes to voluntary evacuation areas.

Toppled power pole on Deep Creek Drive in Running Springs (10/25/07) - Image Credit: ROTW Photo Gallery (“grass and slide fire home survey”)

This excerpt was posted at FIREupdate.com –

Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 10:14 AM

-- Slide Fire: 12,789 acres in Green Valley Lake area of the San Bernardino Mountains. 75 percent contained. 201 homes, three outbuildings destroyed. 5,500 residences threatened. One firefighter injured. Firefighting cost: $7 million.

-- Grass Valley Fire: 1,140 acres in Grass Valley area of the San Bernardino Mountains. 95 percent contained. 162 homes destroyed. 6,000 threatened. Firefighting cost: $4.6 million.

More lost homes on Deep Creek dr. Running Springs (10/25/07) - Image Credit: ROTW Photo Gallery (“grass and slide fire home survey”)
Excerpted from Socalmountains.com Scanner/Chat Forum –

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:46:52
Per Scanner: BDF responding to a vegetation fire. Hwy 330 at City Creek. Engines 34R, 34, M32, SMI241, SMI241A, ABD612, WNP2, PNF16, WT33, PAT11.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:47:07
Per Scanner: Smoke Showing on tihs fire. Confirmed new veggie fire Hwy 330 at City Creek.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:49:00
Per Scanner: Ordering up aircraft for this new fire

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:49:21
This fire is near the bottom of 330.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:53:18
**NEW FIRE BOTTOM OF HWY 330**
Per Engine 34R, he is on scene. Large Spot calling this incident the "330 incident". Helicopters from the slide are on their way.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:53:51
Cancelling the fixed wings. Are going to use the many helicopters already working the slide and grass valley fires.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:54:52
Luckily we have TONS of resources on the mountaintop. They will redeploy as necessary.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:55:49
when did the fire on the bottom of 330 start

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:55:50
Per Scanner: We have knock down of this new fire on hwy 330. Cancel are incoming resources. There is already a strike team on scene.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:56:13
xxxx, just a few minutes ago, but now they have knockdown. Luckily all the resources we have up here were there VERY quickly.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 14:59:42
Resources on the 330 incident will be tied up for about an hour for mop up. Was a large spot, but has been knocked down.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 15:00:13
xxxx, they will be mopping up for the weeks to come, but from a technical standpoint, the fire isn't moving much at all, just many hot spots within the burns.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 15:19:55
Per Scanner: CHP has a motorcyclist in custody related to this new fire on hwy 330. I say if he did it, burn him!

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 15:42:09
Water tower on fire, the irony....

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 15:42:49
Next thing you know they'll be a call from a fireplace being flooded...

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 15:43:11
**RECAP**
A fire was reported at 2:45PM today on hwy 330 at City Creek. Luckily resources from the Slide were able to quickly gain access and knock down this fire (it was a large spot). Currently they have a motorcyclist in custody for possibily being involved with starting this fire. The investigation is currently ongoing.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 15:44:11
Per Scanner: CHP now holding a possible another arson suspect in a Ford Ranger in the same area.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 16:28:02
S.B County Assessor has a list of damaged and destoyed properties at this website [Click Here]

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 16:29:19
The list is for Lake Arrowhead and Green Valley Lake

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 16:29:58
Thank you xxxx. I'll add it to the forum that has the links to that info.

Sunday 28 October 2007 - 16:30:33
Wait, its already there. DUH. Running Springs is what we are waiting for to put in the thread.
Sunday 28 October 2007 - 16:34:29
xxxx's house in GVL is SAFE! His home was on the list of "total loss" from the assesor, however, they had made a mistake. Taking his home off that list now. Just goes to show no list is 100% correct.

Fire damaged neighborhood near downtown Running Springs 10/25/07 - Image Credit: ROTW Photo Gallery (“grass and slide fire home survey”) -- Kelly the Cable Guy

This Slide and Green Valley Wildland Fire summary update from InciWeb –

Incident -- Contained -- Acres -- Updated

Slide --------- 85% ----- 12,789 -- 7:15pm PT

Grass Valley - 95% ------- 1,247 -- 7:15pm PT

-- END OF DAY --

UPDATES For October 29, 2007

This from CalFire - 10:am PT -

San Bernardino County

Slide Fire – 12,789 acres – 90% contained
Grass Valley Fire - 1,247 acres – 95% contained

Excerpted from Socalmountains.com Scanner/Chat Forum –

Monday 29 October 2007 - 12:04:02
12:03 PM
Mon 10/29 Nevato Engineer Steve Rucker who lost his life this day on the Cedar Fire in 2003. Steve was a dearly loved son, father, and brother who gave so much of his heart for those he loved. Those you worked with dearly miss you. Let's all observe a moment of silence for Steve.11:59 AM
Mon 10/29 All engines and stations observe a moment of silence in honor of Steven Rucker who lost his life this day on the Cedar Fire in 2003.11:53 AM
Mon 10/29 Morton Peak observed smoke just the right of Mount R (from rotw)

Monday 29 October 2007 - 13:37:32
09:06 AM
Mon 10/29 Everything above the 330 has been energized, the power is back on. (Response: Yeah, that's good news.)08:32 AM
Mon 10/29 Edison is going to be bringing a (broken) into Heap's Peak today, scouting the burn area for setting some poles in the future.

Monday 29 October 2007 - 14:51:37
running springs damage report is in – go to the SB County Assessor’s office website
[link provided above in post]

Monday 29 October 2007 - 15:18:22
Updated Forum/Fires/News & Updates with 10/29/07 2:30 PM Monday Update Lake Arrowhead Confirmed Damaged or Destroyed Structures
from rotw

Monday 29 October 2007 - 15:22:38
Updated Forums/Fires/News 7 Updates thread:
10/29/07 Grass Valley Site Visit Scheduled For Tuesday -- Residents and property owners of Grass Valley will be given an opportunity to view their homes and properties and salvage belongings during an organized site visit on Tuesday, October 30, from 9:00 am to 5:00 pm.

The mandatory evacuation order for this area will remain in effect during the visit. Those attending the site visit will have to leave the area following the visit.
from rotw

Image Credit: ROTW Photo Gallery (“grass and slide fire home survey”)

Morning Update For October 30, 2007 - This excerpted round-up from Rim Of The World (.net) -

Grass Valley Fire 100 Percent Contained, Slide Fire 92 Percent
By News Staff - Monday, October 29, 2007

Full containment of the fire perimeter was reached on the 1,247-acre Grass Valley Fire. However, interior hot spots remain. Fire crews will continue to mop-up hot spots around structures and within the interior of the fire line. Difficult terrain on the west side of the fire break is slowing mop-up progress. Incident personnel are continuing to work with cooperating agencies and utility companies to facilitate re-entry into the mandatory evacuation area. Three hundred thirty-six personnel remain assigned to the fire.

The Slide Fire is 92% contained as of 8:00 pm Sunday and remains at 12,789 acres. Firefighters continue making good progress mopping up hot spots within the perimeter of the Slide Fire. Higher humidities and lower temperatures are helping their efforts.

Structure protection, mop up and patrol continues in residential areas. As estimated 2,500 structures remain threatened and 1,688 personnel are assigned.

BAER teams and post-suppression rehabilitation teams are continuing their surveys of the burned areas. Emergency stabilization (BAER) teams are focused on protection of life and property and critical natural and heritage resource values from post fire watershed effects. BAER assessment and planning will likely last a few weeks and implementation of treatments will be done within one year.

Image Credit: ROTW Photo Gallery (“grass and slide fire home survey”) - San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department

The areas that suffered extensive fire damage in the Grass Valley Fire will remain under a mandatory evacuation order with road closures along Brentwood Drive at four intersections and at San Benito Drive @ Pinehurst Drive. Residents and property owners of Grass Valley in the mandatory evacuation area will be given an opportunity to view their homes and properties and salvage any belongings during an organized visit on Tuesday, Oct. 30, from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Those interested in viewing their property must check in at Mary Putnam Henck Intermediate School between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. For details view the related press release at [http://www.sbcounty.gov// or call (909) 387-5412.

Mandatory evacuations remain in effect until further notice from Heaps Peak Transfer Station east to Big Bear dam (Running Springs, Arrowbear and Green Valley Lake communities).

A closure order remains in effect for the San Bernardino National Forest. Silverwood Lake State Recreation Area reopened on Sunday, Oct. 28, 2007, at 7:00 a.m. The Miller Canyon Day Use and Grove area will remain closed. Until further notice, the park will remain closed. For additional information, call: 760-389-2303

National Orange Show Fair Grounds in the City of San Bernardino (enter through Gate 9) is still open for evacuees. The Victorville Fair Grounds evacuation center was closed on Sunday.
----
Transition is occurring today with the California Type-1 Incident Command Team 1 assuming command of the Grass Valley Fire at 6:00 am Tuesday, October 30, 2007.

Meanwhile on the Slide Fire, continuing mild weather conditions have contributed to significant progress on fire perimeter containment that is now 90% with no increase in acreage. Overnight crews worked on hot spots revealed from infrared flight information. Structure protection for the 2,500 homes still threatened and mop up continue in and around residential areas. Utility companies are getting services restored. Current management strategy is proving to be successful, with the fire having been contained within objective lines.
----
Breezy weather will return on Tuesday and Wednesday as cooler weather settles in. However, this cooler weather may be short-lived as forecasters are hinting at a possible weak to moderate Santa Ana wind event beginning Friday.
----
BAER rehabilitation teams and post-suppression activities are making plans for work to be done after fire containment lines make the burn areas safe to reenter on federal lands.

The mandatory evacuation order for the communities of Twin Peaks, Rim Forest, Blue Jay, Agua Fria, Deer Lodge Park, Sky Forest, Cedar Glen and the majority of Lake Arrowhead has been reduced to a voluntary evacuation. The area opened Sunday at noon to residents and re-entry passes were not required.

In addition to the areas under mandatory evacuation for the Grass Valley Fire, mandatory evacuations remain in effect until further notice from Heaps Peak Transfer Station east to Big Bear dam, including the communities of Running Springs, Arrowbear and Green Valley Lake.

A closure order remains in effect for the San Bernardino National Forest. Silverwood Lake State Recreation Area reopened on Sunday, October 28, 2007, at 7:00 a.m. The Miller Canyon Day Use and Grove area will remain closed. Until further notice, the park will remain closed.

The Grass Valley Fire is being managed under Unified Command with the US Forest Service and the San Bernardino County Fire and Sheriff departments. The Slide Fire is being managed under Unified Command with the US Forest Service, the San Bernardino County Fire and Sheriff's departments, CAL FIRE, and Running Springs FD. Other cooperators and partners include CA CHP, CalTrans, CA-OES, and Crest Forest FPD.
Reference Here>>

And this clarification issued by ROTW -

Full Return Times

At 6:00 am on Wednesday, October 31, the Grass Valley community area will be under a voluntary evacuation order and all residents will be allowed to return home without restrictions.

At 6:00 am Thursday, November 1, the Running Springs area and Arrowbear will be under a voluntary evacuation order and all residents will be allowed to return home without restrictions.

No return date is set for Green Valley Lake. Highway 330 remains closed, residents should use Highway 18.












----

Grass Valley And Slide Fire Daily Posting Links:

SEVEN SOUTHLAND COUNTIES UNDER WILDFIRE SIEGE – DAY 1
(updates for 10-22-2007)

WILDLAND FIRE WINDS WHIP LAKE ARROWHEAD - DAY 2
(updates for 10-23-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES RAGE IN RUNNING SPRINGS - DAY 3
(updates for 10-24-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES CONTINUE IN SAN BERNARDINO – DAY 4
(updates for 10-25-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES IN SAN BERNARDINO Turn A Corner – DAY 5
(updates for 10-26-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES IN RUNNING SPRINGS SMOLDER - DAY 6
(updates for 10-27-2007)

RUNNING SPRINGS SMOLDERS DAMAGE ASSESSED - DAY 7
(updates for 10-28-2007)

----

Wildland Fires In Running Springs Smolder - Day 6

Improved weather conditions played an important role in allowing firefighters to make good progress on constructing fire containment lines today. Early this morning there was an additional structure loss in the Running Springs area, bringing the total to 201. Structure protection groups went door-to-door performing heat checks on all residences within the fire perimeter. Damage assessment teams are surveying the areas to provide accurate data for mountain residents. Image Credit: KBHR 93.3FM

Damage Assessed - Last Updated 10-30-2007

Per San Bernardino County: 352 Properties Destroyed, 59 Damaged;
The County of San Bernardino has released information on properties damaged or destroyed by the Slide and Grass Valley Fire.

----
The County Assessor's Office has released damage reports.
Lake Arrowhead
Green Valley Lake
Running Springs, Enchanted Forest, Smiley Park, Crab Flats

Source: http://www.co.san-bernardino.ca.us/assessor/
----


Wildland Fires In Running Springs Smolder - Day 6

----

Grass Valley And Slide Fire Daily Posting Links:

SEVEN SOUTHLAND COUNTIES UNDER WILDFIRE SIEGE – DAY 1
(updates for 10-22-2007)

WILDLAND FIRE WINDS WHIP LAKE ARROWHEAD - DAY 2
(updates for 10-23-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES RAGE IN RUNNING SPRINGS - DAY 3
(updates for 10-24-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES CONTINUE IN SAN BERNARDINO – DAY 4
(updates for 10-25-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES IN SAN BERNARDINO Turn A Corner – DAY 5
(updates for 10-26-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES IN RUNNING SPRINGS SMOLDER - DAY 6
(updates for 10-27-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES IN RUNNING SPRINGS SMOLDER - DAY 6
(updates for 10-27-2007)

RUNNING SPRINGS SMOLDERS | DAMAGE ASSESSED - DAY 7
(updates for 10-28-2007)

----

This day finds that one of the few fire areas throughout the seven county fire disaster zone where mandatory evacuations still exist is in the San Bernardino National Forest.

Overnight, headway has been made with the containment at both sites with the Slide Fire moving to become 35% contained and the Grass Valley Fire set at 85% containment.

The weather forecast for the mountains predicts the following (YAHOO! Weather):

Detailed Local Forecast

Today: Cloudy skies early, followed by partial clearing. High near 65F. Winds S at 5 to 10 mph.

Tonight: Mostly clear. Low 34F. Winds light and variable.

Tomorrow: Mainly sunny. High near 70F. Winds SSW at 5 to 10 mph.

Tomorrow night: Partly cloudy skies. Low 36F. Winds light and variable.

This in from CalFire - Last modified on October 27, 2007, 08:10 am –

Slide Fire
San Bernardino National Forest
Green Valley Lake near Running Springs
San Bernardino County

This fire has burned 13,800 acres at Green Valley Lake near Running Springs in San Bernardino County and is currently 35 percent contained. 201 homes and 3 outbuildings have burned.

Mandatory Evacuation for east of Crestline to Snow Valley. Voluntary evacuations for Crestline, Cedar Pines Park, Lake Gregory and Valley of Enchantment. The voluntary evacuations for HIghland have been lifted.

Evacuation Centers are located at National Orange Show in San Bernardino and the Victorville Fairgrounds in Victorville.

All highways in the San Bernardino Mountains west of Big Bear Dam are closed to upbound traffic, except those with Sheriffs passes to voluntary areas. Access to Big Bear is via Hwy 38 from I-10 in Redlands or from Hwy 18 through the Hi-Desert in Lucerne Valley.

1,984 firefighters are currently assigned to this fire under unified command.

The estimated cost of this fire to date is $4.5 million.

Slide Fire Information Line (909) 383-5688.
Slide Fire Map 10/26/07

Grass Valley Fire
San Bernardino National Forest
Lake Arrowhead and Crestline communities
San Bernardino County

This fire has burned 1,140 acres and is 85 percent contained. The fire is northwest of Lake Arrowhead. 162 structures have been lost, and more than 6,000 homes remain threatened.

Evacuation and closure orders remain in effect for a large area surrounding the fire. The mandatory evacuation order for the community of Crestline has been reduced to a voluntary evacuation effective at 9:00 am 10/26. All other evacuations and road closures remain in effect.

Evacuation Center have been established at the National Orange Show in San Bernardino and Victorville Fairgrounds in Victorville.

State Highway 18 is closed from 40th/Waterman to the Big Bear Dam, State Highway 330 is closed at Highland to Hwy 18, State Highway 138 is closed at State Highway 173. Residents may leave via these highways (except 330) but cannot go back up into the Mountains.

Access to Big Bear is via Hwy 38 from I-10 in Redlands or from Hwy 18 through the Hi-Desert in Lucerne Valley.

643 firefighters are assigned to this incident.

The estimated cost of this fire to date is $3.6 million.

Grass Valley Fire Information Line (909) 383-5688.
Grass Valley Fire Map 10/26/07

Excerpted from Socalmountains.com Scanner/Chat Forum –

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 10:55:44
Structure fire in Arrowhear is not related to the Slide fire; don't want folks thinking fire has advanced into that area.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 10:57:20
Initial reports of the Arrowbear fire indicated there were explosions - before or after the fact, who knows.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 11:01:50
the yellow banana helicopter is at the big bear air port, saw it this morning resting

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 11:15:13
xxxx the fire is still above lake view point with very very little movement , we have had only 1 major hot spot this morning that air craft lifted off around 7:30 to pick up and kill, so yes we are doing great guys, the ffs are dealling with hot spots that flare up thats normal- and re inforcing fire breaks

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 11:15:31
I would suspect that if things remain good for our fire (Slide) they will have 50% or more containment by tonight.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 11:16:36
2nd part with the hand crews and dozers, they are still reinforcing all the fire breaks on this mountain from arrowhead to running springfs and from green valley lake to butler peak, so work goes on and if some where some tree or ground fire flars up we do have air craft on hold here at the air port holding

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 11:18:39
Per scanner, Structure fire knowcked down in Arrowbear.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 11:24:34
the loud air craft you all might be hearing is one of the helos going back for refuling or retardant to reinforce lines, nothing major they are just loud it goes over my home

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 11:41:34
per scaner aa we are going to support the ground crews with air attack

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 11:46:12
Map of the location of that structure that went up in Arrowbear this morning. Not related to the Slide fire.

There are reports of a fully involved structure fire at Music Camp Road and Highway 18 in Arrowbear Lake. Reports indicate there may have been an explosion at the house. Civilian injuries have been reported with a medical airship en route. The fire appears to not be associated with the Slide Fire. The cause is not known. Caption Credit: inciweb.net -- Image Credit: Google Maps via Scanner/Chat Forum

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 11:49:19
Not good news on the Arrowbear Music Camp...

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 12:15:15
Per Scanner: Order up the air tankers please. We will take all 8 of them.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 12:15:32
per scanner order all 8 air tankers we will take all 8 ( unknown location for what area at this time

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 12:17:30
Not 100% sure xxxx. I can't imagine them ordering up 8 air tankers for this fire, but I just dont know. It was fairly clear and on our air attack freq, but it could be transmissions from the Santiago fire. I'll try to figure it out.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 12:18:46
the sun is out here in big bear lake west, with lite blue sky,

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 12:52:37
I think it's picking up some of the OC fire stuff, that's not up hear... I even heard we'll take all 8 air tankers, which we don't need, so I think it's bleed over.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 12:54:56
OK, it's certainly possible that you'd hear stuff. Could be overlap in 800MHz channels, or more likely you hear aircraft traffic. It's a relatively clear shot from the Santa Anas to BB, especially from the East end of the valley.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 13:10:19
per rotw( per scanner , chp helo is bringing in some dignitaries to view the fire, - guess they going to have ca secretary of state on board, or something like that - helio 534 has lifted off of heaps peak , to the slide to take picturs of the point of orgin

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 13:24:12
It could be the Gov. He was just in Irvine

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 13:29:11
xxxx, our fire is doing just fine, few smokes that pop up but air atack has been getting those just fine, no worries,

Breaking news from rimoftheworld.net -

Structure Fire In Arrowbear; Initial report of injuries unfounded
By Rim Of The World News Staff -- Saturday, October 27, 2007

A fully involved structure fire in Arrowbear was reported at about 10:30 am Saturday by a helicopter working the Slide Fire. The residence was located in the 33000 block of Music Camp Road. A small amount of vegetation burned near the residence. The fire has been knocked down.

Initially there were reports of a civilian injured, however according to the Public Information Officer at the Incident Command, there were no injuries. Reports indicate there may have been an explosion at the house. Fire officials reported that the fire does not appear to be associated with the Slide Fire. The cause is unknown.
Reference Here>>

Firefighters putting out smolders in the Ponderosa Pine forest near Running Springs. Image Credit: Breitbart

Excerpted from Socalmountains.com Scanner/Chat Forum –

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 15:16:30
FYI - Schools in Big Bear will re-open on Monday. The Rim of the World School District will remain closed all of next week.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 15:19:27
Per Air Attack (talking to a relief air attack for shift change), things are looking real good on both fires.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 15:20:08
from rotw ( at 2:33 p -- only heard one side of the convesation ) butler fire it has sloped over , all together - hand lines in here- a long ways probely a mile , - the black old black is pretty new - i havent see any flames
2:39p( responding to a gass fire off deep creek , rs
this as was an old call , dispatch was showing more resources were added to that call -- air to ground we are getting moisture up here is there anything down to you -- slide fire aa fire has sloped over a bit , we are working on that area butler fire, crews are in there now, was abit soupy for a while but visiablity is pretty good, h 534 , working , heading into big bear

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 16:14:31
No rain, but a few sprinkles... back to TV.

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 16:26:28
Yay rain!

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 16:28:55
channel 6 cars in the villiage have their windshield wipers on
yippyy

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 16:33:12
this might be a dumb question. but does the rain get rid of the smoke?

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 17:04:59
Insurance comm John Garamendi was the VIP here today per knbc. Also Santiago fire area has rain

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 17:05:12
Sure can tell it rained in Running Springs according to the live web came, yeah

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 18:04:40
aa is going to be cutting off early for the nite, they deserve it , as the fire is doing wonderfull for us folks u here in big bear, allday they have been putting out any hot flare ups that have been poping up,, rest easy tonite all another good day on the fire lines

Saturday 27 October 2007 - 18:06:40
drizzled all afternoon in fawnskin, but nothing measurable


RIMOFTHEWORLD.net is reporting -

Currently there are 643 personnel on scene of the Grass Valley Fire. Good progress continues with line construction in the Miller Canyon drainage. Fire crews continue to mop up and patrol around structures on the eastern flank. On the western and northern flanks, improvement to the hand and dozer lines and continued mop up is in progress. Rehabilitation will continue.

There is no anticipated incident movement.

Infrared flights flew the fire to determine the fire has burned 1,140 acres. Damage assessment teams continue their work. Reports indicate 162 structures have been destroyed and 20 structures damaged.

No changes in acreage or containment have been released on the Slide Fire. According to official reports, low intensity fire behavior with active surface and backing fire has been observed. Some torching has also occurred. The fire continues to have a potential to move to the north. Crews are making progress containing the fire's spread on west and northwest flanks. Southerly containment lines in the southwest corner of the fire are complete.

Officials state they are beginning to achieve success with perimeter control strategy as critical resource needs are met. There are 1,984 personnel working this fire.

The Slide Fire is 35% contained and has consumed 13,800 acres. Over two hundred structures have been lost. There is no estimate of release of the Damage report.

The cause remains under investigation

-- END OF DAY --

Wildland Fires In San Bernardino Turn A Corner - Day 5

Forest Service “WAR BOARD” at the beginning of the day Oct. 25, 2007. Image Credit: JerryB -- Socalmountains Forums

Damage Assessed - Last Updated 10-30-2007

Per San Bernardino County: 352 Properties Destroyed, 59 Damaged;
The County of San Bernardino has released information on properties damaged or destroyed by the Slide and Grass Valley Fire.

----
The County Assessor's Office has released damage reports.
Lake Arrowhead
Green Valley Lake
Running Springs, Enchanted Forest, Smiley Park, Crab Flats

Source: http://www.co.san-bernardino.ca.us/assessor/
----


Wildland Fires In San Bernardino Turn A Corner - Day 5

----

Grass Valley And Slide Fire Daily Posting Links:

SEVEN SOUTHLAND COUNTIES UNDER WILDFIRE SIEGE – DAY 1
(updates for 10-22-2007)

WILDLAND FIRE WINDS WHIP LAKE ARROWHEAD - DAY 2
(updates for 10-23-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES RAGE IN RUNNING SPRINGS - DAY 3
(updates for 10-24-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES CONTINUE IN SAN BERNARDINO – DAY 4
(updates for 10-25-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES IN SAN BERNARDINO Turn A Corner – DAY 5
(updates for 10-26-2007)

WILDLAND FIRES IN RUNNING SPRINGS SMOLDER - DAY 6
(updates for 10-27-2007)

RUNNING SPRINGS SMOLDERS | DAMAGE ASSESSED - DAY 7
(updates for 10-28-2007)

----

Firefighters battling as many as 20 major fires in Southern California gained ground in extinguishing blazes that caused the largest evacuation of residents in the state's history and as much as $2.5 billion in damage.

As far as the continuing fires burning in the San Bernardino National Forest, the Grass Valley Fire around the Northwest side of Lake Arrowhead has burned 1,100 acres and is 70% contained … the Slide Fire located between Snow Valley Ski Area to the West and the Running Springs communities to the East burned 11,675 acres and is 15% contained.

The winds are expected to remain calm today but are to increase blowing back to the East threatening the homes to the South of Running Springs, Arrowbear and the forest near Snow Valley Ski Area.

The fires throughout Southern California, all were having a better go of it and great gains have been made. Qualcomm Stadium is expected to be restored to a sports facility from an evacuation location by the end of the day today. It is still unknown if the San Diego Chargers will be able to have their home game be played there on Sunday, but that is the goal.

Martin Mars Super Scooper - Ready to set down in Big Bear Lake and gather up over 7,000 gallons of water, on-the-fly. All boating was banned on the lake yesterday while fire fighting activities heated up. Image Credit: Christopher -- Socalmountains Forums

This item excerpted from Bloomberg news service -

California Firefighters Gain Ground as Winds Ease
By Peter J. Brennan – Bloomberg – Oct. 26, 3;06am PT

Firefighters in Southern California gained ground in extinguishing blazes that caused the largest evacuation of residents in the state's history and as much as $2.5 billion in damage.

Santa Ana winds, which bring hot air from the desert, subsided yesterday, making it easier for firefighters to try to contain the five most destructive blazes, according to the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection. More than 12,000 firefighters were battling 13 remaining blazes.

“Due to a good weather day, we were able to make progress on containment of the fires,'' said Zachary Young, a spokesman for the governor's office of emergency response.

U.S. Border Patrol agents found four bodies burned in a canyon east of San Diego, Cable News Network said. If confirmed as fire-related deaths, it will bring the death toll from the blazes to seven. About 55 people have been injured, Young said.

The National Weather Service is forecasting lighter winds over the next two days and stronger winds blowing inland from the Pacific Ocean picking up Oct. 28, which may push fires in the opposite direction, it said.
----
President George W. Bush yesterday flew to California to survey the damage, saying the federal government wouldn't forget about the area in the coming weeks. He declared a “major disaster'' in the region, meaning the federal government will be providing assistance for firefighting and rebuilding.
----
Bush was criticized for the slow federal response in 2005 to Hurricane Katrina, which flooded New Orleans. Bush and Schwarzenegger praised each other for their reactions to the fires. “It makes a big difference when you got somebody in the state house willing to take the lead,'' Bush said.

Blazes have scorched at least 719 square miles (1,869 square kilometers) since Oct. 21.

Officials revised the number of homes destroyed to 1,342 from 1,400 the previous day and the number of businesses destroyed to 34 from 104, according to state statistics. About 20,900 structures were in danger, down from 45,000 yesterday.

Five people in San Diego, San Bernardino and Los Angeles counties have been arrested on suspicion of arson, the Associated Press reported. The detainees haven't been linked to any of the major blazes.
----
The rescue efforts haven't been without criticism. U.S. Representative Duncan Hunter, a Republican, complained that the authorities were slow to deploy military aircraft. Officials said that was because of the winds, not bureaucracy. Still, some returning residents complained that they were needlessly evacuated or were given little assistance. Others expressed praise.

Dave Farcas, 74, dismissed complaints as he returned to his condominium in Del Mar yesterday. “I thought they were remarkable,'' he said of public officials.
Reference Here>>

"Dance Of The Fireflys" - Helicopters snaching water from Lake Arrowhead and heading back to the fight. Image Credit: RAY via Socalmountains.com Scanner/Chat Forum

Excerpted from Socalmountains.com Scanner/Chat Forum –

Friday 26 October 2007 - 05:53:44
scanner - structure going up on allview

Friday 26 October 2007 - 05:54:55
scanner - looks like the structure we saved last night

Friday 26 October 2007 - 06:34:11
So far in Big Bear it is clear, the moon is bright and a smell of smoke.

Friday 26 October 2007 - 06:40:29
Just an overview. Same as what is in the top screen. But they will be stopping everything for a moment of silence at noon to honor the fallen firefighters from the Esperanza fire.

Friday 26 October 2007 - 06:46:08
Compared to what I was in DTH and what was in Redlands, it is fairly clear here this morning. But yes, still smoky.

[DTH-Down The Hill]

Friday 26 October 2007 - 06:46:34
The moon view from DTH is red. Up here it is white.

Friday 26 October 2007 - 06:58:50
On scanner, search and rescue going on behind Sugarloaf.

Friday 26 October 2007 - 07:09:24
xxxx - It actually looks pretty good. Smells like smoke some - but NOTHING like it did on Wednesday afternoon & evening.

-- SoCalMountains.Com SERVER DOWN --

Friday 26 October 2007 - 10:12:25
last report the fire was still above artic circle it has not moved down into the drainage or towards glory circle, back wth updates shortly

Friday 26 October 2007 - 10:13:55
per scannner ok aa is over the slide fire and also over the boy scout camp in lake arrowhead there are a few new smokes poping up and they are geting them out

Friday 26 October 2007 - 10:17:16
per rotw* ground to air they are talking about where to send the guys to work into town , this was lake arrowhead at the boy scout camp --
tankers were worried eariler about the smoke as it was one mintue you could see 4 miles out then a minute later it was 3 miles out visiablity and they said if they were not able to get thru the smoke they would have to abort and hold at san bernadino air base, but the sky has cleard so the tankers are up and running over here at the slide fire too

Friday 26 October 2007 - 10:20:40
They have 6 tankers and 1 super scooper assigned to our fires up here today. So far so good.

Friday 26 October 2007 - 10:22:03
there was dicussion of getting the scooper in to douse of the hot spots near the boy sout camp in L.A but tankers are doning that area just fine -- aa per rotw ( helicopter 715 ( tanker) were going to send you back to work on the grass fire - divison zulu -( aa giving directions how to get over there (( some of the pilots are not familar with this area, ) to the grass fire


Sun shining through the smoke in the San Bernardino National Forest - Image Credit: louamestoy

These updates posted at KBHR 93.3FM –

Updated Numbers on the Slide Fire and Grass Valley Fire

The Grass Valley Fire, still at 70% containment over 1,100 burned acres, has an updated burned structure count of 160 structures, per fire officials this morning. More details are expected, with regard to structure loss.

On the Slide Fire, which is at 15% containment with the structure loss tally still at 200 plus homes, the new burned acreage tally is 13,378 acres.
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Fire Crews Concentrated Near Snow Valley; Big Bear Events and Closures

The updated reports on the Slide and Grass Valley Fires, as of this morning, is that they have achieved improved containment on both fires. Over 2,100 firefighters are at work on both blazes.
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Firefighting crews have concentrated efforts on the 13 Turns section of Highway 18, both day and night, to ensure that the Slide Fire does not cross the highway between Snow Valley Ski Area and Green Valley Lake Road. John Miller of the U.S. Forest Service spoke to us directly from this area this morning, and reports that this is a ground fire, and most trees along the roadway do remain intact.

However, the fire did reach the roadway, from about a ¼ mile west of the top of 13 Turns and down to near the Green Vally turnoff. Still, Miller tells KBHR, “There are a ton of crews there, putting out hot spots.” That said, he reassures us, “The threat to Big Bear is minimal.”

There is one hot spot that is reportedly visible from the Highway 38 area, and this is directly north of Snow Valley along the ridgeline. The fire, Miller notes, “is in the timber and that's what's creating all the smoke. It is one concentrated area. Crews are there, and there is aircraft working it as well.”

Given today's blue skies in the Big Bear Valley, we will see columns of smoke but again, Miller says, “The threat to Big Bear is low.”

In other Big Bear news related to the fires, Big Bear Lake does remain closed to all boating activity today, to allow for safe water pulls by aircraft for fire suppression. In a conversation Scott Heule, General Manager of the Municipal Water District, last night, he did stress his gratitude to boaters for their gracious compliance.

Bear Valley Unified School District tells us that Saturday's Bears football games and the cross country meet will be rescheduled—our teams will not have to forfeit.

The football games against 29 Palms have not yet been rescheduled; the cross country meet will now be held at Yucca Valley on Wednesday, October 31. The BBHS performances at the Performing Arts Center are on for Saturday, at both 1pm and 7pm. Tickets for Thursday and Friday performances will be honored, space permitting. As of today's fire situation, BVUSD does plan to have schools open on Monday.

Other events still on for this weekend include Saturday's final day of Oktoberfest, from noon to midnight; the Soroptomists will still hold their Halls of Horror Haunted House at Snow Play Mountain on Saturday, from 5 to 10pm, and a less-scary version on Sunday, from 4 to 6pm (cost is $5); and the Discovery Center will still hold their Feast of the Harvest Moon, featuring Native American culture, on Saturday from 10am to 3pm.

Also, the Bloodmobile is in town today, if you have an hour to give blood, at Stater Bros. until 4pm today.

And, once again, access to Big Bear, via Highway 38 and Highway 18 through Lucerne Valley is open to all traffic. Officer Gary Fernandez with the California Highway Patrol reiterated for us today, “There are no checkpoints. Highways 18 and 38 are checkpoint free.”

Given that the front way of Highway 18 is closed, we would like to remind you that businesses in Fawnskin and the Boulder Bay area remain open, and would appreciate the support and patronage of the Big Bear community this weekend.

Tent City at the Snow Valley Incident Command Center – Image Credit: KBHR 93.3FM

This found at Inciweb.org incident reports -

07:55 PM Source: other From: Website - Inciweb.org
http://inciweb.org/incident/1005/ 7:00 pm

Update Mandatory Evacuation for Green Valley Lake, Arrowbear, and Running Springs.

Fire has crossed Hwy 18 in Running Springs and also crossed Hwy 330.

Evacuation Centers are located at National Orange Show in San Bernardino and the Victorville Fairgrounds in Victorville.

All highways in the San Bernardino Mountains west of Big Bear Dam are closed to upbound traffic.

Access to Big Bear is via Hwy 38 from I-10 in Redlands or from Hwy 18 through the Hi-Desert in Lucerne Valley.

Fire Behavior -- Moderate intensity, active surface and backing fire, short runs, torching, combined with short range spotting.

Significant Events -- Structure protection in place for Lake Arrowhead Scout Camps established. Initated perimeter control on northeast section.

Outlook -- Planned Actions Continue structure protection, mop and patrol around structures; construct direct line in southwest section and around Running Springs. Projected Movement The fire has the potential to move to the north towards the Pacific Crest Trail and south in the Fredalba Creek area.

Growth Potential Extreme Terrain Difficulty High Containment Target Anticipate success with a perimeter control strategy as critical resources begin to arrive.

Remarks -- Mandatory Evacuations for all areas from Crestline to Snow Valley remain in effect. Voluntary evacuations for Highland from North of Highland Avenue, east of Hwy 330 and west of Weaver.

An estimated 200+ homes have been burned. A total of 10,000 homes threatened for the Grass and Slide fire areas.

Road Closures -- All highways west of Big Bear Dam: 138, 18 and 330. Hwy 18 to 40th St., 330 bottom (Highland) to top.

Resources on Scene -- 213 Engines, 35 water tenders, 23 hand crews and 6 dozers, 10 Helicopter, Air Tankers 4. Resources being shared between Slide and Grass Valley fires.

One additional structure lost early in the AM at Running Springs. Developing contingency plans for fire movement towards Lake Arrowhead. Damage assessment in progress.

Lastly, this from Calfire at 9:30pm PT -

Slide Fire – 13,700 acres – 20% contained

Grass Valley Fire - 1,140 acres – 75% contained

END OF DAY