Sunday, September 30, 2007

Avian Magnetic Field Sensing Visualizes Direction

A hermit thrush. Songbirds may be a familiar sight, but studying their migration patterns is difficult. They travel at night — thousands of feet in the air — defying scientists' attempts to track them. Image Credit: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

Avian Magnetic Field Sensing Visualizes Direction

Here on planet Earth, many forces exist that aid in our collective experiences. Animals of every stripe have developed specialized senses on which to take advantage of these forces in their own special way.

It is suspected that the Hammerhead Shark evolved the way it did, eyes perched at each end of a wide and flat front nose end, so that it could better sense the low level electronic field of living animals the shark considers food – a hunting strategy.

It turns out that migratory birds have a tool in their eye that allows it to sense the geo-magnetic field of the Earth so that flocks could migrate to where food is plentiful through the seasons and survive – a different type of hunting strategy.

Avian Magnetic Field Sensing - Neuronal tracing reveals that Cluster N receives input through the thalamofugal visual pathway. Schematic side view of the bird's brain indicating the locations of tracer application. Retrograde tracer (BDA, shown in green) was iontophoretically applied into Cluster N (shown in magenta). Anterograde tracer (CtB, shown in red) was injected into the vitreous of the contralateral eye. Image Credit: Image courtesy of PLoS and article authors, Heyers D, Manns M, Luksch H, Gu¨ ntu¨ rku¨n O and Mouritsen H.

This from a study submitted to the Public Library Of Science via Science Daily -

Do Migratory Birds 'See' The Magnetic Field?
A visual pathway links brain structures active during magnetic compass orientation in migratory birds.

Science Daily - September 26, 2007

Every year millions of migratory birds fly towards their wintering quarters and come back in next year´s spring to breed. Behavioral experiments have shown that the Earth´s magnetic field is the main orientation cue on their journeys.

Nevertheless, surprisingly little is known about the neuronal substrates underlying these navigational abilities. In recent years, it has been suggested that sensing of the magnetic reference direction involves vision and that molecules reacting to the Earth´s magnetic field in the birds' eye form the molecular basis for a vision-dependent compass mechanism.

Cryptochromes, which fulfill the molecular requirements for sensing the magnetic reference direction, have recently been found in retinal neurons of migratory birds (Mouritsen et al., PNAS, 2004).

Furthermore, studies investigating what parts of a migratory bird´s brain are active when the birds use their magnetic compass showed that the cryptochrome-containing neurons in the eye and a forebrain region (“Cluster N”; Mouritsen et al., PNAS, 2005; Liedvogel et al., EJN, 2007) are highly active during processing of magnetic compass information in migratory birds.

Sensory systems process their particular stimuli along specific brain circuits. Thus, the identification of what sensory system is active during magnetic compass orientation, provides a way to recognize the sensory quality utilized during that specific behavior.

In the current study the research group from Oldenburg, Germany and their collaborators traced the neurons from the eye and from Cluster N. The results “link” the recent findings by demonstrating a functional neuronal connection between the retinal neurons and Cluster N via the visual thalamus.

Thus, the only two parts of the central nervous system shown to be highly active during magnetic compass orientation are linked to each other by a well-known visual brain circuit, namely by parts of the so-called thalamofugal pathway. For the first time, clear neuroanatomical data suggest which specific brain pathway processes magnetic compass information in migratory birds.

These findings strongly support the hypothesis that migratory birds use their visual system to perceive the reference compass direction of the geomagnetic field and that migratory birds are thus likely to "see" the geomagnetic field.

Citation: Heyers D, Manns M, Luksch H, Gu¨ ntu¨ rku¨n O, Mouritsen H (2007) A Visual Pathway Links Brain Structures Active during Magnetic Compass Orientation in Migratory Birds. PLoS One 2(9): e937. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0000937
Reference Here>>

(ht: Oblate Spheroid)

Tuesday, September 25, 2007

Columbia’s Speaking-Truth-To-Power Moment (Updated: Full UN Text)

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speaks at Columbia University, Monday, Sept. 24, 2007, in New York. Image Credit: AP Photo/Stephen Chernin

Columbia’s Speaking-Truth-To-Power Moment

Many of us who live here at MAXINE remember, however vaguely, what it meant to become a child of the “sixties”. One of the tenants that the Hippie generation brought forward to the American culture, along with “Flower Power”, Ecology, “if it feels good ... do it”, was the concept of “speaking truth to power”!

This process of speaking-truth-to-power was designed to empower the populous … to not be intimidated by those in power. To give permission to anyone to call those in power OUT if they were, in fact oppressing the masses through the curtailing of the personal freedoms that are due to them in this society.

Ariel Shaeban, right, an Iranian immigrant now residing in New York, screams at pro-Iranian protesters outside the campus of Columbia University during a speech by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Monday, Sept. 24, 2007 in New York. Image Credit: AP Photo/Jason DeCrow

Generally, this process and concept are great for any society if is used in protest and in the proper context.

Columbia University’s president, Lee Bollinger, got the context of the concept and process all wrong when he decided to invite and keep the speaking date with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad yesterday.

Bollinger, after receiving a proper and extreme negative reaction to the invitation of Ahmadinejad decided to proceed with the speaking occasion. In order to mollify the alumnae and other possible contributors to Columbia, Bollinger decided to introduce Ahmadinejad in what can only be a grandstanding of a speaking-truth-to-power moment by ripping “Mockmood” a new one!

Columbia's president, Lee Bollinger, set the combative tone in his introduction of Ahmadinejad when he said, "Mr. President, you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator."

Bollinger’s grandstanding went on, "In a December 2005 state television broadcast, you described the Holocaust as the fabricated legend,". Bollinger reminded Ahmadinejad, "One year later, you held a two-day conference of Holocaust deniers."

Bollinger said that might fool the illiterate and ignorant.

"When you come to a place like this, it makes you simply ridiculous. The truth is that the Holocaust is the most documented event in human history," he said.

Columbia President Lee Bollinger speaks prior to introducing Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of the Islamic Republic of Iran at Columbia University, New York, Monday, Sept. 24, 2007. Image Credit: AP Photo/Stephen Chernin

This speaking-truth-to-power moment lasted the better part of fifteen minutes but the Columbia president really had it all wrong. By inviting and hosting the Iranian president in the first place was to elevate this man, his concepts, and his regime to an additional position of power, the respected podium of a first tier University.

For “Mockmood’s” part, he did not disappoint any who watched him. He powerfully put forth that in Iran, women have the greatest of freedoms anywhere on Earth, women are respected, that Iran does not experience the phenomena of homosexuality as we do here in the United States (“homosexuality does not exist in Iran”), on the subject of the Holocaust, “Mockmood” said, "There's nothing known as absolute," and that the Holocaust has been abused as a justification for Israeli mistreatment of the Palestinians. "Why is it that the Palestinian people are paying the price for an event they had nothing to do with?" he asked, and so on. In otherwords, NOTHING NEW.

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speaks at Columbia University in New York, September 24, 2007. Ahmadinejad accused Israel of occupation and racism on Monday at the start of a visit to New York for the U.N. General Assembly meeting that has sparked protests and anger. Image Credit: REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton (UNITED STATES)

By using this time and this place for Columbia University’s president, Lee Bollinger to speak-truth-to-power actually backfired because of the fact that the words were not listened to but the context was. Protests, to be effective, usually are not launched through an invitation and acceptance of the person "in power" being protested.

Bollinger ended up allowing Ahmadinejad to portray himself as an intellectual and argue that his administration respected reason and science, that he was a former engineering professor. “Mockmood” was able to appear shaken and irate over what he called "insults" from his host, and he soon found himself gaining sympathy from and being applauded by the sitting audience in his more powerful “Speaking-Truth-To-Power Moment”.

At MAXINE, we are saddened this event had to happen in the first place.
(ht: AP, Reuters Photos - Yahoo! News)


President of Iran Addresses UN General Assembly - New York 25 September 2007 - Image Credit: UN Photo/Mark Garten

Full Text Of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad 62nd UN General Assembly Address (Sept. 26, 2007)

By Office of Mahmood Ahmadinejad - President -Iran [view author info]

New York, New York -

In the Name of God, the Almighty

"Oh God, hasten the arrival of Imam Al-Mahdi and grant him good health and victory and make us his followers and those who attest to his rightfulness"

Mr. Chairman, Honorable Delegates,

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am pleased and grateful to the Almighty to have the opportunity once again to attend this important universal forum.

In the present tumultuous world and predominance of loud outcries, threats and tensions, and in the time when the big powers are unable to solve the present problems, when mistrust in regional and international arenas is on the rise, when psychological security of societies is being targeted by an onslaught of political and propaganda designs, and disappointment prevails over efficacy of policies and actions of the international organizations in establishing of durable peace and security, and the protection of human rights is being weakened,

I plan to touch upon and explain the roots and ways out of these predicaments and some of the principal challenges facing our world. I will also speak to you about the need for amending the present situation, prospects for brighter and more hopeful future, and about the reappearance of the sublime and beauty, kindness and dignity, justice and blossoming of all divine human talents and dominance of love of God and realization of the promise of God as stated by of all divine prophets and righteous men. I will then put to your judgment the nuclear issue of Iran as a reality and testing ground for measurement of honesty, efficacy, steadfastness and victories. In the closing part of my address, I will offer my proposals.

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

As you are all aware we are presently facing important, numerous and diverse challenges that I will refer to some of them.

1- Organized attempts to tear down the institution of family and to reduce the status of women

Family is the most sacred and valuable human institution that serves as the center of the purest mutual love and affection of mothers, fathers and children, and a safe environment for the upbringing and cultivating human generations, and a fertile ground for blossoming of sentiments and emotions. This institution has always been respected by all nationalities, religions of cultures.

Today we are witnessing an organized invasion by the enemies of humanity and plunderers to tear down this genuine institution. They target this noble institution by promoting lewdness, violence and breaking the boundaries of chastity and decency.

The precious existence of women as the expression of divine beauty and peak of kindness, affection and purity has been the target of heavy exploitation over the past recent decades by the holders of powers and owners of media and wealth. In some societies, this beloved creature has been reduced to mere instruments of publicity and all boundaries and protective shields of chastity, purity and beauty have been trampled. This is a colossal betrayal of human society, of succeeding generations, and an irreparable blow on the social coherence.

2. Widespread Violations of Human Rights, Terrorism and Occupation

Unfortunately human rights are being extensively violated by certain powers, especially by those who pretend to be their exclusive advocates. Setting up clandestine prisons, abductions, trials and secret punishments without any regard to due process, listening on telephone conversations, opening private letters and frequent summons to police and security centers have become commonplace and prevalent. They prosecute scientists and historians for stating their opinions on important global issues. They are using different alibis to occupy sovereign nations and cause chaos and divisions, and then use the prevailing situation as an excuse to continue their occupation. For more than sixty years, Palestine, as compensation of the loss they incurred in the war in Europe, has been under occupation of the illegal Zionist regime.

Their people have been displaced or are under heavy military pressure, economic siege or are incarcerated under abhorrent conditions. The occupiers are protected and praised, while innocent people of Palestine are subjected to political, military and propaganda onslaughts. The people of Palestine are deprived of water, electricity and medicine for the sin of asking for freedom, and their government that has come from the votes of the people is targeted. Terrorists are being organized to attack the lives and property of people, under auspices of politicians and military officials of the big powers. The brutal Zionists carry out targeted assassinations of Palestinians in their homes and cities, and terrorists receive medals of peace and support from the big powers. On the other hand they gather a number of deprived Jewish people with false propagation under pretext of providing them with welfare, job and food from different parts of the world and settle them in the occupied territories and exposed them to harshest restrictions, psychological pressures and constant threat. They prevent these deprived people to return to their main lands and by use of force and false propagation make them show their hatred towards indigenous Palestinian people.

Iraq was occupied under the pretext of overthrow of a dictator and existence of weapons of mass destruction. The Iraqi dictator who had been supported by the same occupiers was disposed of, and no weapons were discovered, but occupation continues under different excuses. No day passes without people being killed, wounded or displaced, and occupiers not only refuse to be accountable and ashamed, but speak in a report of a new market for their armaments as the result of their military venture. They even oppose the constitution, national assembly and the government arising from the votes of the people, while do not even have the courage to declare their defeat and exit Iraq.

Unfortunately we are witnessing this bitter truth that some powers do not put value on any nation or human beings, and the only things that matters to them are themselves, their parties and groups. In their view, human rights are tantamount to profits for their companies and friends. The rights and the good name of American people are also being sacrificed for the selfish desires of those holding power.

3. Aggressions against Indigenous Cultures and National Values

Culture is the expression of identity and the key to survival of nations and the foundation for their interaction with others. In an organized movement, indigenous cultures that are messengers of monotheism, love and fraternity are being subjected to broad and destructive aggressions. National customs and values are humiliated and self-esteem and character of nations are ridiculed and defamed. The purpose is to promote blind emulations, consumerism, skeptism toward God and human values, and plundering of their wealth by big powers.

4. Poverty, illiteracy, Health Deprivation and Gap between the poor and the Rich

While a major part of the natural environment in Asia, Africa and Latin America is being plundered by political and economic domination of certain powers. The situation of poverty and deprivation is very alarming. These are some of numbers by the United Nations:

- Every day close to 800 million people go to bed hungry and about 980 million suffer from absolute poverty, with less than one dollar a day in purchasing power.
- People of 31 countries, equivalent to 9 percent of the world's population, have an average life expectancy equaling to 46 years, which is 32 years less than the average of some countries.
- Ratio between the rich and the poor in some parts of the world is 40 times.
- In some countries, majority of people are deprived of access to education and schooling.
- In many developing countries the maternal mortality rate during pregnancy is 450 per 100,000. This ratio is 7 in the richer nations and the ratio of mortality of new births is 59 for developing countries and 6 for the richer nations.
- One-third of mortality in the world, or 50,000 daily, results from poverty.
I believe these numbers clearly demonstrate the tragic situation prevailing over the global economy.

5. Ignoring Noble Values and Promotion of Deception and Lies.

Some powers sacrifice all human values including honesty, purity and trust for the advancement of their goals. They propagate skepticism and deception in the relations between states and peoples. They lie openly, level baseless charges against others, act contrary to legal norms and damage the climate of trust and friendship. They openly abandon morality and noble values in their relations with others, and substitute selfishness, supremacy, enmity and imposition for justice, respect for others, love, affection and honesty. They sacrifice all the good things of life and the sublime for their own greed.

6. Violations of Rules of International Law and Disrespect of Commitments

Some who were themselves the drafters of international law openly and easily violate them and apply discriminatory policies and double standards. They drafted disarmament regulations, but every day test and stockpile new generations of lethal weapons. They framed the Charter of the United Nations, but show disrespect to the right of self-determination and independence of sovereign nations. They conveniently abrogate their formal treaties, and do not yield to laws concerning protection of environment. Most of the violations of international obligations are done by few global powers.

7. Escalation of Threats and Arms Race

Some powers, whenever their logic fails, simply use the language of threat. The heavy arms race cast the shadow of threat over the globe. The nations of Europe were the victims of two world wars and a number of other devastating conflicts and were subjected to the consequences of the Cold War for many decades. Today Europeans are living under the shadow of threat, and their interests, security and lands are endangered under shadow of the arms race imposed by certain big powers.

A bullying power allows itself the right to set up a missile system, makes the life of the peoples of a continent bitter and lays the ground for arms race.

Some rulers who superficially appear to be powerful act as a child that has acquired a plastic water gun and feels powerful power and starts shooting impatiently at all things and at all times, threaten others and cast the shadow of insecurity over nations and regions.

8. Inefficacy of International Mechanism to prevail over these challenges and to bring durable peace and security.

International organizations and mechanisms clearly lack the capacity to overcome problems and challenges, to put in place fair and just relations and peace, fraternity and security. There is hardly any government or nation that places much hope on these mechanisms to secure its rights or defend its independence, territorial integrity and national interests.

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

The challenges are a lot more than the ones I enumerated and I know that you would have presented many more if you wanted to dwell on them, but I chose to confine myself to the ones I stated.

Now, the important and decisive question concerns the roots and causes of these challenges.
A scientific and careful analysis shows that the root of the present situation lies in two fundamental factors.

Without doubt, the first factor lies in the relations arising from the consequences of World War the Second.

The victors of the war drew the roadmap for global domination and formulated their policies not on the basis of justice but for ensuring interests of victors over the vanquished nations. Therefore mechanisms arising from this approach and related policies have not been capable to find just solutions for global problems since 60 years ago.

Some big powers still carry the conduct of the victors of a world war and regard other states and nations even those that had nothing to do with the war, as the vanquished, and humiliate other nations and demand extortion from the condescending position similar to feudal and peasants of the medieval age.

They regard themselves superior to others and are not accountable to any government or international body.

Colleagues, Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen,

Among all the ineffective organizations, unfortunately, the UN Security Council ranks first.
They have created circumstances in which some powers with exclusive and special right to veto in the Security Council act as prosecutor, Judge and executioner, regardless of being a defendant or respondent. It is natural that countries that have been subjected to their infringements have no hope to get what they deserve from the Council.

Unfortunately the humanity has witnessed that in all long wars, like the Korean and Vietnam wars, the war of the Zionists against Palestinians and Lebanon, war of Saddam against the people of Iran and ethnic wars of Europe and Africa, one of members the Security Council was one of the belligerents or supported one party against the other, usually the aggressor, or the conflict itself.

Look at Iraq, they first occupied them and then received authorization from the Security Council, the same Council in which the same occupiers have the right of veto.

Who should the people of Iraq complain about and to where should they take their complaints with hopes of securing their rights?

We saw in Lebanon that some powers delayed the decisions of the Security Council hoping for the victory of the Zionist regime. However, when they became disappointed in that usurper regime's victory, they approved of a ceasefire to take effect. But the duty of the Security Council is to prevent the expansion of conflicts, to put in place the ceasefire and promote peace and safety. Who should the people of Lebanon complain about and where should they take their complaints to?

Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen,

The presence of some monopolist powers has prevented the Security Council from doing its main duties which are safeguarding peace and security based on justice. The credibility of the council has been tarnished and its efficacy in defending the rights of its members has been destroyed. Many nations have lost their confidence in the Council.

Some other mechanisms like the monetary and banking mechanisms are in the same undesirable situation and have been turned into tools for the imposition of the wishes of some powers on other nations.

It is evident that these mechanisms are not capable of responding to the current needs and solving the challenges and establishing fair and sustainable relations.

Dear Colleagues,

Again, there is no doubt that the second and more important factor is some big powers' disregard of morals, divine values, the teachings of prophets and directions specified by the all-knowing God as well as the rule of the sinful. How can the sinful that can not even manage and control themselves, rule the humanity and arrange his affairs?

Unfortunately they have put themselves in the position of God! They are in servitude of their own whims and desire to have everything for themselves. For them, the human dignity and the lives, properties lands of others are no longer important.

Humanity has had the deep wound caused by impious powers on his battered body. Today, the problems that people around world face are mainly rooted in the disregard of human values and morals and also in the management by the impious.

Friends, Ladies and Gentlemen,

The only sustainable way to the betterment of mankind, is the return to the teachings of divine prophets, monotheism, respect for the dignity of humans and the flow of love and affections in all relationships, ties and regulations. Then the structures should be reformed based on these.

To fulfill this objective, I invite everybody to line up a front of fraternity, amity and sustainable peaces based on monotheism and justice under the name of "Coalition for Peace" to prevent incursions and arrogance and propagate the culture of affection and justice. I hereby announce that with the help of all independent, justice-seeking and peace-loving nations, the Islamic republic of Iran will be treading on this path.

Monotheism, Justice and love for humans should dominate all the pillars of the UN and this organization has to be a reference for justice and every member of it has to enjoy equal spiritual and legal support.

General Assembly as the representative of the international community shall be considered as the most important pillar of the UN in order, free from any pressure and threats of big powers, to take required measures for reforming the UN structures and especially change the present status of the Security Council and define new structures based on justice and democracy with the purpose to become responsive to the present requirements and be able to settle existing challenges leading to the establishment of sustainable stability and security.


The nuclear issue of Iran is a clear example of the performance of such mechanisms and their prevailing thoughts.

As you all know, Iran is an official member of the International Atomic Energy Agency and has always observed its rules and regulations and has had the most extensive cooperation with this Agency in all aspects. All our nuclear work has been completely peaceful and transparent.

According to the Statute of the IAEA, any member has a number of rights and commitments. Actually, any member has to move on the peaceful path and, under the supervision of the Agency, assist other members and is entitled to be supported by the Agency and have access to the fuel cycle with the help the Agency and its members.

So far, Iran has fulfilled all its obligations but has been deprived of other members' technical assistance and, even during some periods of time, of the Agency's support.
For about 5 years, some of the aforementioned powers tried to deny the Iranian nation of its rights by exerting pressures on IAEA.

They derailed Iran's nuclear issue of its legal path and politicized the atmosphere to impose their wishes taking advantage of all their potentials.

Iran spared no effort to build confidence. However, nothing satisfied them except the complete halt of all nuclear activities even those related to research and university fields. They were only after depriving Iran of all its inalienable rights. Therefore, even those centers not involved in the fuel cycle or not in need of the supervision of the Agency were closed. After three years of negotiation and trying to build confidence, the Iranian nation came to the resolute conviction that the main concern of these powers is not the possible deviation of Iran from the rules and regulations of the Agency but its scientific progress. If this trend continues there will be no chance for Iran to enjoy its rights, not even in the next 20 years. Therefore, it has to be decided to follow up the issue on its right legal path that goes through the Agency away from illegitimate and political impositions by the arrogant powers. Of course, Iranian Nation has always been ready and now is prepared for constructive talks.

By abusing the Security Council, the arrogant powers have repeatedly accused Iran and even made military threats against it over the last two years. However, thanks to the faith in God and the national unity, Iran has moved forward step by step and now our country is recognized as a country with the capacity for industrial scale fuel cycle production for peaceful uses.

Fortunately, the Agency has recently tried to regain its legal role as supporter of the rights of its members and supervisor of nuclear activities. We see this as a right approach adopted by the Agency. Previously, they illegally wished to politicize Iranian Nation's nuclear case, but today, thanks to the resistance of the Iranian nation, the issue is back at the Agency and I officially announce that in our opinion the nuclear issue of Iran is now closed and has turned into an ordinary matter. Today many questions have been raised on Iranian nuclear activities within IAEA by certain powers which shall be examined properly. Of course Iran has always been prepared to have constructive talks with all parties.

I would like to thank all the nations and countries that, during this hard juncture, defended the legal rights of my nation and motherland and also appreciate the members of the Non-Aligned Movement, our other friends in the Security Council, IAEA's Board of Governors, the committed and law-abiding experts of the Agency and its Director General for their insistence on the law. I would also like to announce that unlike the monopolist powers, the Iranian nation is ready to offer to other members its experiences in form of educational programs and based on the obligations of the Agency's statute and under its supervision.

Now I would like to address those who beleaguered the Iranian nation for about five years, offended and accused my people who have contributed to the history and civilization of the world and advice them to learn from their recent actions. They mistreated the Iranian nation but they have to be careful not to do the same with other nations and not to sacrifice the integrity of international organizations for the sake of their unlawful wishes. Today the nations of the world are wide-awake, vigilant, and resistant. If you reform yourselves, the whole world will be reformed.

Nations are inherently good and can co-exist peacefully. They'd better try to serve their own people, and be sure that others do not need them.

Is it not high time for these powers to return from the path of arrogance and obedience of Satan to the path of Godliness?

Do they not like to be cleansed of their impurities, submit to the will of God and believe in him?

Faith in God means believing in honesty, purity, justice and loving others!

They can be sure that they will benefit from purity, honesty, justice, loving and respecting the human dignity. They can be sure that such attributes are considered to be more appropriate, valuable and beautiful by the nations of the world.

This is the invitation of all divine prophets from Adam to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ and Mohammed, the Messenger of God (PBUH).

If they answer to the invitation, they will be saved and if they don't, the same thing that befell the people of the past will befall them.

According to holy Koran:

"One who does not answer the divine call should not think that he has weakened God on earth; he has no companion but God and he is clearly engulfed by darkness".
They have nothing of their own and can not escape from the dominion of the rule of God and his will.

In this important gathering, I have to remind them of the following words of the Almighty which has been mentioned in the Holy Quran:

"Do they not look at the powers and governments which came before them? If the people of the past had actually possessed something, they would have kept it and would not have let you the posses it now. God destroyed them because of their sins and nobody could protect them against the will of God".

They have to know that the ways and traditions based on oppression and injustice will be destroyed. Do they not see the signs of vigilance and resistance based on monotheism, philanthropy and the justice-seeking spirit of the nations of the world? Do they not notice the imminent fall of empires?

I hope that this invitation will have a practical answer.


Nations and countries don't have to obey the injustice of certain powers. These powers, because of the reasons already mentioned, have lost the competence to lead the world because of their hideous acts.

I officially declare that the age of relations arising from the Second World War as well as materialistic thoughts based on arrogance and domination is well over now. Humanity has passed a perilous precipice and the age of monotheism, purity, affinity, respecting others, justice and true peace loving has commenced.

It is the divine promise that the truth will be victorious and earth will be inherited by the righteous. You, who are free, believers and the people of the world, put your trust in God. You, who crave for the high values, wherever you are, try to prepare the grounds for the fulfillment of this great divine promise by serving the people and seeking justice.

The age of darkness will end, the prisoners will come back home, the occupied lands will be freed, Palestine and Iraq will be liberated from the domination of the occupiers and the people of Europe will be free of the pressures exerted by the Zionists. The tender-hearted and humanity-loving governments will replace the aggressive and domineering ones. The human dignity will be regained. The pleasing aroma of justice will permeate the world and people will live together in a brotherly and affectionate manner.

Striving in this way to give the rule to the righteous and the Promised One is actually the final cure for the wounds of humanity, the solution of all problems, and the establishment of love, beauty, justice and happiness all over the world. This belief and endeavor is the key to unity and the constructive interactions among nations, countries, the people of the world and all the true justice seekers.

Without any doubt, the Promised One who is the final Savior and the last heavenly message will come. In the company of all believers, justice-seekers and benefactors, he will establish the bright future and fill the world with justice and beauty. This is the promise of God, therefore it will be fulfilled.

Let's have a role in the fulfillment of all this glory and beauty.

I wish for the bright future for all human beings and the dawn of the liberation and freedom for all humans and the rule of love and affections all around the world as well as elimination of oppression, hatred and violence. The wish which I think will be realized in the near future.
Reference Here>>

Thursday, September 20, 2007

NYPC – The Lily Livered Response Of The Big Apple

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad smiles as he leaves the parliament in Tehran, Iran, on Tuesday. Image Credit: Vahid Salemi, AP

NYPC – The Lily Livered Response Of The Big Apple

News Item:

Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, requests to visit Ground Zero next week when he attends the United Nations' General Assembly meeting.

His reason for the request was that he wanted to place of a wreath on and pay his respects to the site where terrorists toppled the twin World Trade Center tower buildings and killed over 3,000 innocent people.

NYPD Response:

After a meeting to review the Iranian President’s request, New York Police Department, the Secret Service and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, NYPD spokesman Paul Browne said, “Construction is underway at the site and no visitors are allowed because of safety concerns.”

"He wanted to go into the pit and lay a wreath," Browne continued. Even if Ahmadinejad had asked to visit the area near Ground Zero, that "would also be opposed by NYPD on security grounds," he said.

Ground Zero - September 11, 2001. A day that will forever be remembered. - Let it not be remembered for the evil acts of violence targeted at fear, panic and death. But remember the human spirit, the brotherhood of mankind, and the goodness that not only New Yorkers but Americans and the world over have dedicated to saving our most precious resource: life. For this is the only way to stand up to those wish to fight from shadows, or are rabid enough to believe it is worth their own life to see so many others end. - May God bless our Ground Heros. Caption Credit: World Trade Center Memorial Fund - Image Credit: National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

The “View” From MAXINE:

Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has recently been quoted in statements questioning whether six million Jews died at the hands of the Nazis and calling for the state of Israel to be "wiped off the map." Further, he has vehemently defended Iran's right to develop nuclear power while denying that it seeks to additionally develop nuclear weapons of which he has stated that he intends to use to carry out his threat on Israel.

Why can’t the NYPD (New York Police Department) be less NYPC (New York Politically Correct) in their response to Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s request?

Truthfully, the NYPD, New York Mayor Bloomberg, and all other people in authority should have been completely clear and unified in their response.


Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, request should have been rejected on the grounds that as one of the world's leading sponsors of terrorism, the NYPD would find it inappropriate to allow his official and escorted visit to this hallowed ground ... NOT, that this site is a construction zone and general safety is in peril.

The cynicism of this request to lay a wreath where Islamo-Fascists terrorists killed so many innocents and destroyed so much property in the name of what Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad stands for, should have been met with an outright rejection ... not a capitulation based upon site security restrictions.

The Correct Response:

The NYPD, the Borough of Manhattan, the City of New York, the State of New York and the nation of the United States does not cater to the requests of terrorists and the states that sponsor them. Request Denied!

Image Credit: World Trade Center Memorial Fund


Based upon the many statements of hostility toward humanity and the outright destruction of one segment of our world in humanity (Jews), why would the United States issue this guy, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a visa in the first place?

Where are the levels of enforceable standards in this situation?

UPDATE: The Iranian leader plans to go to Ground Zero on Monday at 10 AM with a Secret Service escort - over NYPD objections. (WABC-TV)

Also: Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney requested that the UN indict Ahmadinejad under the Genocide Convention instead of having him as a speaker.

With these updates, the title of this post should be:

The Lily Livered Response Of The Bush Administration (sorry, W)

Additional developments and blogger community reaction HERE>>

Wednesday, September 19, 2007

T-Boomers Wednesday - Butler II Fire

USDA Forestry Department MODIS Active Fire Map showing the Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 area of containment and most active fire environments within the area of containment. Issued September 18, 2007 - Image Credit: USDA via Jerry B - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

T-Boomers Wednesday - Butler II Fire

Morning headlines for Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - Day Six - Butler Peak Fire Incident #2:




Yesterday was a good day indeed. The 2,000 + crew of fire fighters were proving to be the difference Tuesday ... where the fire tried to threaten structures in the Pine Oak area of government land lease cabins on steep terrain near the dam and the village of Fawnskin.

Yesterday's Score?:

FIRE - 0

CDF & USDA Hotshots - 2

The change in the weather may actually be a double edged sword. On one hand, the weather is cooler and may contain moisture to put the fire down ... on the other hand, winds, thunderboomers & lightning have the possibility of creating more mountain fires - this is exactly how the Butler Peak Fire (incident #1) got started.

Image Credit: San Bernardino National Forest - USDA FOREST SERVICE

Today, with success on the firelines, may be the last of this series of Big Bear Lake area fire activity updates and posts.

Excerpts From SoCalMountains Chat/Forums –

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 06:23:02
We will have strong winds before any rain or snow late tonight so I hope that doesn't fan this fire. It's one of my main concerns in question right now

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 06:27:09
They are predicting winds sw @15-20mph today. Hope their wrong.

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 06:36:48
They will be more like Southwest 40-50mph tonight
Morning update from KBHR 93.3FM -

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2

Update as of 6:30am Wednesday, September 19:

The fire is 86% contained at 14,039 acres. Fawnskin is still under a mandatory evacuation order. Today 2,346 fire personnel are assigned to the Butler #2 Fire.
Excerpts From SoCalMountains Chat/Forums –

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 08:09:39
per scanner ( helos are lifting off from the big bear airport heading over this way

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 08:14:05
just checking in to catch updates, things look really great right now fire is laying down, The winds can change everything in a few minutes, stay alert and aware and keep your fingers crossed.good luck wont be able to check in most of the day but wont be far from my thoughts

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 08:22:17
i ususally monitar the air attack only,, others will post in about whats happening on the ground , rotw usually has whats going on thru alerts and someone willl post what they read back on here

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 08:24:31
theres a little still in front of butlers and some to the left behind but nothing like yesterday. i think they are contol buning at this point

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 08:25:15
im back , the fire has really layed down last nite, greys peak you can see where its been burned but hardly any smoke is showing good news on that then,

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 08:27:09
per scanner ( talk is getting assignments of where people are working today nothing major happening yet ,
Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 08:40:35
huge "muther" storm cloud
coming over the mtn, heard on the radio Banning is
getting light rain this morning already, here in Snowcreek, strong wind gusts to 20mph..

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 08:56:54
Snowcreek Village sits at the base of the San Jacinto Mtns, where the verbenia and Snow fire was....So side of banning pass area. Cloud is as big as the plume from your fire seen in photos, its moving north...
I put additioanl in fo oon the LOBBY CHAT

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 08:58:25
thx snowcreek! we're look forward to a nice stormie knocking this fire down!!

Photo from a live streaming camera located at Snow Summit Ski Area. Photo taken at 10:30 AM PST and shows a lot less smoke from previous days images from the same camera. If one looks closly, the view of the northern mountains shows the red striping of fire retardant drops from fixed wing support aircraft. Image Credit: Big Bear Mountain Resorts - "Westridge" Camera

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 10:47:39
per scanner (we just had a rekindle at the top

workng on getting bilbets and bladder bags up to you , they have nothing in supply working on it - (discussion of a smoke that if it drops down ) if it drops down there in there yes sir" it sure could , dont think it will make it all the way to camp , " no the first one, but that second one
out there

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 11:09:51
per scanner div a ( by the dam) doesnt need any more support - fog has rolled into running springs per scanner

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 11:23:19
per scaner have a saftly issue near the roadway of hwy 18 , its a large tree about 40 foot its burning , it will be coming down

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 11:23:22
ROTW: have a safety issue; one tree is burning, about a 20' tree; it's going to come down into the roadway; we have a dozer ready, waiting to move it when it comes down

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 11:23:32
i think they are letting it burn off the dead trees at this point

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 11:25:26
I think we all know these guys are getting a very good handle on this, they may have some trouble spots but things are looking good.

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 11:26:15
xx me too, but i havent heard it was on the other side yet, of hwy 18,, i cant confirm that yet,, pm craig or ben mabe they know but i did hear about a few spot fires yesterday morning but aa pounced on them super hard, but as to active fire there now idont know

The view of Grey’s Peak (Butler II Fire) with the Solar Observatory standing guard in the foreground. Photo taken from Stanfield Cutoff as of 8am Tuesday morning (9/18/2007). Prevailing winds in this photo are to the northwest. Image Credit: KBHR 93.3FM
Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 12:30:33
Noon KBHR - The wind factor does remain an issue today, as there is a High Wind Advisory for the San Bernardino Mountains through 11am Friday. The National Weather Service reports that the High Wind Advisory could mean gusts as high as 35 miles per hour in our area. At present, local humidity is at 15%, and winds at the KBHR studios in Big Bear City have already been as high as 20 miles an hour in the last hour.

John Miller of the U.S. Forest Service tells us that the mandatory evacuation order for Fawnskin will absolutely not be lifted today. We are in close contact with Incident Command and the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, and will be sure to let evacuees know as soon as a return to the North Shore is announced.

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 13:28:48
ROTW: Spot weather forecast from Holcomb Creek area, elevation 7224, south aspect; dry; 64 degrees; 4% relative humidity; winds 3 mph out of the SSW; gusts to 10 mph; clear skies

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 13:40:33
per scanner ( another weather report - 9% rh
winds 16-18 mph gusting to 28 up here , on the knob

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 13:43:00
scanner talk is about getting out the smokes same as befor nothing has really changed
shipping in crew supplies that they need say up on the ridges or with the engines, nothing major

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 13:45:49
north shore is looking good i dont see any smoke coming up fawnskin area - only trouble spot is stilll greys peak now and then it puts up alittle black smoke nothing major and skies are clear all the way thru from one end to the other end from what i can see at the lake

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 13:56:11
per scanner ( the fire has rekindled in big pines flat, right on the edge of the line at leas a mile ne of the station - ( big pines flat area) no one in that area - well try to take care of it - if you cant get anyone down in there - winds are getting to it and its getting into the brush alittle bit - it appears to be with in the burn about 20-30 feet of the dozer line

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 13:59:07
per scanner winds are picking up alittle bit here where del rosa hot shots are working at

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 14:02:19
per scanner ( big pines flat winds sw at 25 at the ridge


This wind report has the potential of not being very good. The last three days, the prevailing winds have been to the northeast at around 10 mph or less ... 25 mph in the opposite direction has the potential of changing the whole complection of this fire. We will keep an eye on it.

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 14:10:44
Wind from Snow Summit - Average windspeed (ten minute) 4.5 mph Wind Direction (ten minute) SSW (204ยบ)

Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 14:20:57
per scanner ( aa or helos ( tahoe hot shots are in div W working with H720 and H534
engin 54 is working with 767 with the los pardres hotshots and kern valley hotshots , in div Z div A has h 707 woriking with groveland hotshots , div b has santa barbara hotshots working with 4 channel tac is in div W

Afternoon update from KBHR 93.3FM -

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2

Update/recap as of 3pm Wednesday, September 19:

Great progress has been made on the Butler #2 Fire and, though there are still areas burning, containment is at 86% as of last night, and total burned acreage has been held to 14,039 acres.

The voluntary evacuations for Lucerne Valley, Green Valley, Running Springs and Arrowbear were lifted as of last night. The mandatory evacuation for residents of Fawnskin does remain in place at this time.

As of this morning, there are over 2,300 personnel on scene, and those firefighting forces include 70 hand crews, 164 fire engines, 8 dozers, 28 water tenders, and 17 helicopters.

Lee Bentley of the U.S. Forest Service, stationed at Incident Command in Snow Valley, tells KBHR that those numbers will probably change later today, as fire status may allow for demobilization of some fire personnel. “This thing is looking real good,” Bentley notes, “as long as the winds stay the same.”

The wind factor does remain an issue today, as there is a High Wind Advisory for the San Bernardino Mountains through 11am Friday. The National Weather Service reports that the High Wind Advisory could mean gusts as high as 35 miles per hour in our area. At present, local humidity is at 11%, and winds at the KBHR studios in Big Bear City have already been as high as 20 miles an hour.

Due to these factors, and the fact that there are still areas that are burning on the Butler #2 Fire, which brings with it a possibility of blowing embers, there is no return date for Fawnskin residents at this time. John Miller of the U.S. Forest Service tells us that the mandatory evacuation order for Fawnskin will absolutely not be lifted today.

We have been in Fawnskin this afternoon, and the good news is that all homes remain intact. There are engine crews staged throughout neighborhoods, should conditions change. Though there is not much in the way of visible burn scarring from downtown Fawnskin, there are surrounding areas as close as a ¼ mile away that continue to smolder and burn.

Spot fires continue to burn on Arctic Circle. When we were on scene in the last hour, we did see flames just off the roadway. Helicopter water drops continue in the area, and hand crews are hard at work in the steep terrain off Highway 18.

The Arctic Circle is lined with fire engines. CalTrans trucks are also there, clearing the rocks, debris, and burned vegetation that has rolled down the slope and onto 18. For this reason, and ongoing concerns for public safety, there is no estimated reopen date for Highway 18 from Running Springs to the Big Bear Dam.
Wednesday 19 September 2007 - 19:10:35
93% Containment!! Yahoo!!!!

Mandatory evacuation for Fawnskin residents lifted as of 6pm Wednesday!

Only residents will be allowed into Fawnskin at this time, so be prepared to show proof of residence.

** Last Posting Of This "Thunderboomer" Series Unless Things Go Dredfully Wrong **

Update from KBHR 93.3FM as of 9am Thursday, September 20:

As of yesterday evening, Incident Command reports 93% containment on the Butler #2 Fire, which has been held to 14,039 acres. The cause of the fire, which was spotted by the Butler Peak Lookout Tower on Friday afternoon, is still under investigation.

John Miller of the U.S. Forest Service tells us that the remaining 7% which isn't yet considered fully contained includes the Arctic Circle portion of Highway 18, in the vicinity of Butler Peak, and the north end of the fire toward Lucerne Valley, where there is extremely rocky and steep terrain.

Engine crews will remain on Arctic Circle, watching for spot fires and extinguishing any roll-out, which includes burning debris that comes down the slope. As Miller noted this morning, “Highway 18 is going to continue to be a real concern for us.”

That said, Highway 18, from the Big Bear Dam to Running Springs, will remain closed to traffic as it is still an unsafe zone. Engines, hand crews and CalTrans trucks will continue to be in that area today.

Fawnskin residents were allowed to return home last night, as the mandatory evacuation was lifted at 6pm yesterday. Postmaster Cynthia Crane tells KBHR that the Fawnskin Post Office will be open today. Highway 38 along the North Shore, from the Discovery Center to the Big Bear Dam, will be open to Fawnskin residents only, so be prepared to show identification with proof of physical address. Utility bills will be accepted as proof at the California Highway Patrol stop points. Highway 38 along the North Shore will open to everyone else after 6pm this evening.

The U.S. Forest Service reports two injuries to firefighting personnel yesterday—one dislocated shoulder, and a dislocated knee.

The following areas remain closed at this time: Camp Whittle, Big Pine Flat, Ironwood, Hanna Flat Campground, yellow post campsites, and the Butler Peak Lookout. The following forest roads also remain closed: 2N13, both ends of 3N14, 4N16, 3N16 at Crab Flats, and Grays Peak Trailhead.

But, the good news is that containment is at 93%, the Butler #2 Fire has been held to 14,039 acres, and Fawnskin residents are allowed to return home.

Update as of 9am Friday, September 21:

The great news from Incident Command on the Butler #2 Fire is that containment is officially at 100%, and total burned acreage was held to 14,039 acres.

Today's mop up and rehabilitation efforts are being overseen by the California Interagency ICM Team 4 and, as of this morning, 1,466 personnel remain on scene. Though, according to Pete Jankowski at Incident Command, they will continue demobilization of many crews today, with an expected 500 or so firefighting personnel on scene by this evening.

Butler Peak Fire Links (all postings):

Butler Peak Fire Incident #1 (Labor Day Weekend 9-2-07) & #2 – Saturday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Sunday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Monday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Tuesday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Wednesday (final)

Tuesday, September 18, 2007

Thunderboomers Tuesday – Butler II Fire

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 (Butler II) as seen in this compilation graphic where a topographic map is overlaid with an infrared imaging shot of the firelines as they were at 14:00 hours on Monday (9-17-2007). Image Credit: Jerry B - SoCalMountains

Thunderboomers Tuesday – Butler II Fire

Yesterday was a good day. The winds did not wreak havoc with the state of the current firelines, the firefighters around Fawnskin were able to beat back the fire from within 1/2 mile of the cabin structures to 21/2 miles back while creating defensible space around cabins … an arson suspect was taken into custody … a forestry service spotterplane working the firelines had engine trouble and was able to make an emergency ditch landing in a open field behind the motorcycle manufacturing facility owned by Big Bear Choppers and the pilot survived a little shaken ... Green Valley Lake seems to be out of trouble and the residents might be able to return today.

Red and white USFS spotter plane reported engine failure over the lake, 'put it down' in the field; pilot is out of the plane at this time and is in good shape - Image Credit: SKYPROS - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

Judging from the morning reports, BBL and the firefighters may be in for another good day here on day five.

This morning update from KBHR 93.3FM begins well -

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2
Update as of 6am Tuesday, September 18:

The Butler Fire #2 is 14,039 acres and 53% contained. 2,505 personnel are assigned to the fire. The projected movement of the fire is Northeast with extreme growth potential. Mandatory evacuations remain in effect for the community of Fawnskin. The evacuation center has been moved from Big Bear High School to the Pine Summit Christian Camp at 700 Wren Drive in Big Bear Lake. There WILL be school today in the Bear Valley Unified School District. SR-18 is closed from Running Springs east to the Big Bear Dam and Little Arctic Circle at the West end of Big Bear Lake.

Reference Here>>

CDF Hotshots hitting the ground, watering. Image Credit: SUPERFIRE84 - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

Morning Update from the California Department of Forestry (CDF):

Butler #2 Fire:
Name: Butler #2 Fire
County: San Bernandino County
Administrative Unit: San Bernandino National Forest
Status/Notes: 53% contained - 14,039 acres - North of Big Bear
Date Started: September 14, 2007 1:51 pm
Last update: September 18, 2007 7:30 am

Reference Here>>

USDA Forestry truck hitting the flames with a “side shooter”. Image Credit: SUPERFIRE84 - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

Excerpts From SoCalMountains Chat/Forums –

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 08:39:08
Good Morning everyone. Fawnskin is still standing, but it is a little smokey. I hear from my FF buddies that the evac order maybe lifted by tomorrow depending on how the work goes today. For everyone that has a cabin or home in the Fawnskin area, I have driven the area and everybody is fine.

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 08:42:27
morning everyone , strong haze this end of the valley and probley all thru the valley super strong smoke smell - per scanner talk about placing people here and there and whats going where

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 08:51:16
aa per scanner no visability below feet due to cloud cover,

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 08:56:47
xxx - yes, the folks here in the desert were talking about a fire in Twin Peaks. The ROTW scanner talk is about a fire in Crestline and one in Lake Gregory. Both pretty much under control.

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 09:23:40
aa per ops ( dc10 not coming in, we see no need for it ,

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 09:24:36
aa per scanner , (we can get another heavie in here by the dam to reinforce that , if we cant get the heavie a medium will work just as good - sounds good

CDF Hotshots lighting backfires. Image Credit: SUPERFIRE84 - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 09:27:33
have you heard any info on if its taking up any more acreage in the green valley lake area?

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 09:28:16
fire is looking good from my vantage point , no plum hardly at all compared to yesterday - we have some green heavy torching on the south west corner
[GVL] , per scanner

California Department of Forestry Hotshots doing what they do best. Image Credit: SUPERFIRE84 - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 10:14:05
per scanner everyone is talk about single smokes minor flare ups in the retardant area of the fire , nothing major happening fire is looking super good ,

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 11:09:53
fire has crested the lake side of north shore aa is hitting this hot and heavy just came from out side we are watching the helos come in hot and heavy very noisy over here, the fire is about 1/4 of the way down , putting up lots of whte smoke, ffs are working heavy and doing the best they can its still a ways away from homes

Fire creeps down upon Artic Circle Monday (9-17-07). This activity will last long after the fire is out in that rocks, boulders, and loose trees will find their way to the highway below ... and traffic. Image Credit: Blakey - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 11:11:23
dc 10 made 3 drops where the fire has crested this is looks to be greys peak from my area

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 11:14:24
Hi everyone! Update from weather: Heavy wiinds tom. with heavy precip. expected Fri and Sat. Hopefully everything will hold and the ff's can get a good grip on this monster before the winds! The map was really good! Thanks!

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 11:15:37
is the containment still at 53%?

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 11:18:15
aa is still hitting this area hot and heavy,, the fire is still putting up lots of heavy white smoke with occasionally black mixed in, not moving fast repeat not moving fast,

aa per scanner ( will keep putting water on this side
north shore greys peak - to keep it from rolling ..

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 11:26:11
Weather - Really is no front with this system so it's basing on orographical
lift aka the mountains lifting up the low level air up the slopes for rain into the cold, -22 celcius air at 18,000 Feet for storms Friday. Showery type, off and on / hit and miss type.

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 11:40:48
ok just came from walkng down to the lake, the 2 (( yellow bananas)) are working this fire droping water on this fire on greys peak, white smoke showing they are doing back to back drops to slow things down

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 12:01:55
I was just out near Pineknot and I gotta say that the fire area looks way, WAY better!!!

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 12:07:42
guess that is grey's peak in cam, all this time I thought it was on lagonita point. glad I only put my foot 1/2 way in my mouth, sorry p.s. when this fire is over i want start a real fight, windy point is where the camara is (gilner point) always was untill in the 60's a map showed the name to far out in the lake, place they call windy point is actualy shelter cover (the place they filled in to build the houses, next to roy rogers house) ask any fisherman, guess i started the fight already

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 12:13:00
Ch 7 is saying Snow at 7000 on Thur and down to 6000 on Fri it is at 50% chance this would be great so be shure to prep your homes for the cold.
Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 12:27:29
one of the guys in a plane has a infrared camera that pickes up the hot spots on the mountain and this is where the helos are dropping at with his guilding them in to the target spots

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 12:34:51
ROTW 12:32: {ROTW developing story} Tankers are currently on hold at the air bases. "This looks like a helicopter show right now," said Air Command. "Just call us if you need [the tankers]."

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 12:35:31
aa per scanner fire is really looking good - we have 2 scouts out looking for any hot spots, and little bity spots showing up but nothing major ,

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 12:39:50
both one man in the plane has a camera for hot spots once he pin points it then he can relate to the other aa where to drop especially thru the smoke

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 12:40:16
sorry not lazer i just relized what i had said verbal only

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 12:42:23
aa is still talking to the helos about where to drop , some times the talk is alittle left and there you go , or you missed and lets try this again and then its roger this or copy that

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 13:02:34
fawnskin is looking good , i dont see any real smokes in that are at all

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 13:10:43
what is going on from the dam to windy point on the north shore?

Tuesday 18 September 2007 - 13:16:23
I was down at Boulder Bay earlier. There is a good view from the park as well as along the Boulevard at the drive-in (Spencer Real Estate).

They have painted a significant retardant line above the cabins on the north shore.

I am extremely impressed with the progress that they have made!!

Noon Update From KBHR 93.3FM –

Update as of noon on Tuesday, September 18:

The Butler #2 Fire remains the number one priority wildland fire incident in the nation again today, which is why we have national Incident Management Team I overseeing fire suppression. As first priority, we have tremendous air support on scene.

Type I crews have also continued to join fire suppression efforts—these Type I teams have been working all summer, battling blazes in Montana and Idaho, and are now stationed here.
As of this morning, Incident Command reports 53% containment on the fire, which is a significant increase from yesterday's 12%. Though acreage was estimated at 15,433 yesterday, updated reports tell us that 14,039 total acres have burned.

Monday evening, some spot fires burned on the east side of the peak just off Highway 38 near Fawnskin, which accounts for the smoky area in the foreground when looking toward Windy Point. According to ICM Team I's Information Officer Pete Jankowski, who is the Fire Chief for the City of Laverne, crews established containment lines around those spot fires last night.
At this time, he tells KBHR, the burn area is now ¼ mile from the community of Fawnskin though, again, those containment lines were successfully established last night. Firefighters are aggressively maintaining structure protection, and crews are stationed along Highway 38 (on the North Shore) and Highway 18 in the Arctic Circle area.

Today, 64 of the 68 hand crews on scene are Type I crews. These highly qualified teams, some of which are Hot Shot crews, can attack the fire directly and are able to get into the rugged terrain that has proved daunting for fire suppression. If needed, these Type I crews can engage in coyote tactics, meaning they can work a 16-hour shift and stay at the scene, as air supply can deliver water, food and sleeping bags to them, and they are prepared to stay on scene for 24 hours. At this time, coyote tactics have not yet been implemented for these teams of 20 and, on strike teams, groups of 40.

Type II hand crews are equally important in the effort, as they are providing residential support in Fawnskin, creating defensible space, and are involved in hand-line construction. Smaller engines and hand crews are at work in the direct attack in the area of Highway 38 and Fawnskin.

Fire officials report that there is incoming low pressure, weather-wise, and they do expect winds tomorrow, so aggressive containment with the 2,505 firefighting personnel at work on the Butler #2 Fire continues.

There has been no loss of homes in the Fawnskin area. Highway 18 remains closed, from the Big Bear Dam to Running Springs.

Road update: The Little Arctic Circle portion of Highway 18, from Talbot (in Boulder Bay) to the Big Bear Dam, has reopened this morning. Highway 18, from the Big Bear Dam to Running Springs, remains closed to all traffic. No word yet when the roadway will reopen. To clarify for those of you coming up the mountain, the portion of Highway 38 from Mentone to Big Bear City remains unaffected by the fire, and is safe for travel. Highway 18 through Lucerne Valley is also open to traffic.

Retardant Stripes - This shot is for the folks on here who have expressed concern for their cabins in the Pine Oak area by the dam. Photo was taken today, 9/18, about 1:00 p.m. - photo shows the rather impressive retardant line to the west and the north of the cabins in this area. Image Credit: Maggie - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

At MAXINE, we have been in and out all day but keeping tabs on the developments ... the main impression is that the fire crews are having great success in all areas save for Grey's Peak where the fire continues to be very stubborn.

Evening Update From KBHR 93.3FM –

Update/recap as of 5pm Tuesday, September 18:
Over 2,500 fire personnel have been hard at work today, protecting homes, dumping water and retardant on hot spots, and enforcing containment lines around the Butler #2 Fire. Containment remains at 53% and total acreage burned is still at 14,039 on the fire, which remains the number one priority wildland fire incident in the nation.

When we flew over the fire zone this afternoon, we did notice a hot spot on the ridge between Windy Point and the Big Bear Dam, and aggressive air drops of water and fire retardant have been underway, with as many as 23 helicopters at work at fire suppression today. Much of the fire to the north has been smoldering, and the portion off Highway 18 at Arctic Circle is being suppressed at the roadway, given the steep terrain. Highway 18, by the way, will remain closed from the Big Bear Dam to Running Springs until further notice.

Yesterday evening, some spot fires burned on the east side of the peak just off Highway 38 near Fawnskin though ICM Team I's Information Officer Pete Jankowski assures us that containment lines were successfully established last night.

We just spoke with John Miller of the U.S. Forest Service, who has been at Station 49 in Fawnskin this afternoon. He says, “It was a really good day for us.

There was no big swing in the weather, which allowed crews to do what they need to do.” He assures us that firefighting personnel that aren't directly attacking the blaze are busy doing preventative work around homes and in neighborhoods from the Big Bear Dam to the Discovery Center. All homes in the Fawnskin area remain safe and intact. Handcrews are among those creating defensible space by raking pine needles, removing flammable material near homes, and doing some brush work. Miller adds that they are going to continue to do this--especially in anticipation of winds tomorrow, crews are doing all the fire preventative work they can do today.

Before signing off, Miller did want to add the following: “On behalf of all firefighters, we are very appreciative of the outpouring of support from the residents of Big Bear Valley. We even talked about it in our briefing this morning, and we are just beside ourselves with the generosity from the community.”

Update as of 7pm Tuesday, September 18:
The report as of this evening is 86% containment, per the Incident Management Team's Pete Jankowski. He also tells KBHR that great progress was made in the Fawnskin and Arctic Circle areas. Other good news from the fire scene is that the voluntary evacuation for Green Valley Lake residents has been lifted this evening.
Reference Here>>

Final Report From INCIWEB for Tuesday -

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 (Butler II Fire)

Current Situation:
As Of 18:00 PST 9-18-2007

Total Personnel - 2,346

Size - 14,039 acres

Percent Contained - 86%

Fuels Involved - Grass, Brush, and Timber.

Fire Behavior:
Minimum fire activity, no fire spread today. A lot of rolling material onto Hwy 18.
Significant Events

Significant progress made with line construction today. Evacution for Green Valley, Running Springs, Arrowbear Lake, Lucerne Valley lifted today at 18:00

Planned Actions:
Continue line construction, hold existing line, provide structure protection where needed.

Projected Movement:

Growth Potential:

Terrain Difficulty:

Remarks -

Highway closures:
Hwy 18 remains closed from Running Springs to Big Bear Dam. Drivers may not access Big Bear from Hwy 18 or from Hwy 330 in San Bernardino, but Hwy 18 is open from Apple Valley (the high desert). Drivers may also access Big Bear via Hwy 38 from I-10 in Redlands.

Areas Closed:
Camp Whittle Boy Scout Camp, Big Pine Flat, Ironwood, Hanna Flat, Yellow Post campsites in the area, and Butler Peak Lookout.

Forest Road Closures:
2N13, both ends of 3N14, 4N16, 3N16 at Crab Flats, Grays Peak Trailhead.

Resources on Scene:
69 hand crews, 164 engines, 17 helicopters, 12 fixed wing aircraft,8 dozers, and 28 watertenders.

Mandatory Community Evacuations remain in effect for the Fawnskin area from the Big Bear Dam to The Discovery Center north of Hwy 38. The evacuatiion center has been moved to Pine Summit Christian Camp at 700 Wren Drive in Big Bear Lake.

Voluntary Evacuations lifted for Green Valley Lake, Lucerne Valley, Running Springs and Arrowbear.

Current Wind Conditions - 1 - 11 mph NW
Current Temperature - 73 degrees
Current Humidity - 20 %

This is very good news indeed - the fire fighters moved the containment from 53% to 86% today and no structures lost. With the weather growing cooler over the next few days with a 50% chance of rain (and maybe even snow above 6,000 feet) this fire may be in control.


Butler Peak Fire Links (all postings):

Butler Peak Fire Incident #1 (Labor Day Weekend 9-2-07) & #2 – Saturday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Sunday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Monday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Tuesday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Wednesday (final)

Monday, September 17, 2007

Thunderboomers Monday - Butler Peak Fire Incident #2

Butler Peak Fire 2 PROGRESS MAP (posted by Blakey - 9-16-07 11PM – socalmountains - forums) NOTE: the orange is the OFFICIAL FIRE PERIMITER based on the map used at meetings last night. the red is the area highlighted by the officials as the latest progress not yet incorporated into the maps that had been previously displayed. To lend a perspective of distance to the viewing of this map ... Big Bear Lake is seven miles long and one mile wide at its widest point. Image Credit: Forums Administrator – Blakey


Thunderboomers Monday - Butler Peak Fire Incident #2

Overall, yesterday saw weather that was better than expected. With the addition of about 500 to 600 more firefighters on the lines, increased tanker and helicopter fire dropping activity, the threat to structures was abated around the village of Fawnskin – but, of course, today is another day.

Hotspots remain, and the fear is, that even though Big Bear Lake and Green Valley Lake may be out of danger at the moment … Lucerne Valley lays directly in the path of the prevailing winds.

Today’s weather expects to see an increase in the winds that were surprisingly mild on Sunday.

Fire fighting outfitted DC10 #910 heads skyward after a last minute sunset retardant drop over Fawnskin. This photo was taken from Division Road near the end of the runway at the Big Bear Lake Airport. Image Credit: mountainmanor - socalmountains - forums

This excerpted from the San Bernardino County SUN -

Winds help stifle fire
Growth slows, danger persists
Joe Nelson, Jason Pesick and Melissa Pinion-Whitt, SB SUN Staff Writers - Article Launched: 09/16/2007 11:32:05 PM PDT

Calm morning winds lured the 15,000-acre Butler II wildfire away from Green Valley Lake and toward Lucerne Valley on Sunday while more than 2,000 firefighters continued to battle the blaze.

The 15 to 20 mph winds that caused the blaze to explode Saturday from 400 acres in the morning to nearly 14,000 by evening, slowed to 7 mph early Sunday, helping firefighters get a 12 percent containment on the blaze.

The fire was estimated at 15,433 acres Sunday evening, growing about two miles on the eastern flank from where it was Saturday.

There were 2,245 people fighting the blaze Sunday.

Firefighters allowed Green Valley Lake residents to return to their homes after lifting a mandatory evacuation for the area.

Mandatory evacuations remained in effect for Fawnskin, where 600 structures were threatened, although the blaze had stopped heading for the area Sunday.

Lucerne Valley was under voluntary evacuation from Crystal Creek Road on the east to High Road on the west and north to the Pitzer Buttes area.

Although the fire's spread slowed in the morning, firefighters still worried that the dry conditions and gusty winds could change the fire's behavior.

Cindy Bean, incident meteorologist, said overnight winds Sunday will be a big factor.

"It's going to be dry, and the winds are going to be picking up," Bean said Sunday evening. "Keep in mind, it's still very, very dry out there.

Gusts up to 35 mph were expected on ridgetops Sunday night.

"If we get strong gusts, that could take the fire in a different direction," said U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman Jocelyn Holt.

U.S. Forest Service firefighters try to put out a spot fire while fighting the Butler II wildfire near Fawnskin on Sunday. Image Credit: Brett Snow/SB SUN Staff Photographer

Fire personnel were starting to see spots in the desert northeast of the fire and fearing that winds from the west could push the blaze farther east toward Holcomb Valley and Lucerne Valley - areas full of heavy timber.
Dan Felix, a fire-behavior analyst, said that although there's less fuel for the fire in the desert, there's still concerns that the fire will head out there.
Dozens of firefighters stood by homes along Rim of the World Drive in Fawnskin, providing structure protection.

Firefighters from around the Southland, including Downey, Santa Fe Springs as well as from Ventura and Orange county departments, scattered around the area, guarding homes.
By midafternoon, some of the fears concerning firefighters earlier in the day became real.

Gusty winds kept the fire burning strong near Fawnskin. The heavy smoke flames became dangerous enough on Gray's Peak that U.S. Forest Service hot shot crews were pulled out of the area.

Ten strike teams were ordered for the community, in addition to the four teams already in the area.

"With the history of fire in this area, you don't take any chances," San Bernardino County fire Capt. Mike Horton said.

Pilots in fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters dropped a ring of fire retardant around the community, in anticipation of a flare-up.
CDF Capt. Cheryl Goetz said the mission for her team of 19 firefighters from the Monterey San Benito unit was to see if properties across the Lucerne Valley had enough defensible space in case the fire burns through the area.
Residents also watched with concern as the flames crept over the mountain and continued heading north.

David Velazquez, 34, stood in his yard at the corner of Zircon and Crystal Creek roads in Lucerne Valley with his sons Joshua, 6, and David Jr., 17, raking manure while Joshua scooped it up.

A thick white band of smoke crowned the mountain ridge behind Velazquez.
Velazquez said authorities notified him by phone on Saturday night of the voluntary evacuation.

A sheriff's deputy went around his neighborhood as well knocking on doors, informing residents to be on alert.
Velazquez said he was very concerned about the fire burning down the north side of the mountain toward his home.

"Embers and ashes are falling, and it's very dry out here," he said, adding he was worried that the tar shingles on his roof might catch fire if stray embers land on it.

Velazquez said if the situation worsened, he would water down the roof and if evacuation was necessary, he would head to a relative's home in Ontario.
Reference Here>>

Fire progression map Friday through Sunday evening. Color Code: Yellow & Orange=Friday AM, PM Magenta=Saturday Royal Blue=Sunday – Image Credit: USDA Forestry Service via KBHR 93.3FM

Photo taken of the Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 from the Westridge (Snow Summit) cam at about 7:04 in the morning of 9-17-2007. Smoke covering the mountains along the north Big Bear Lake valley behind Fawnskin. Image Credit: Big Bear Mountian Resorts

Excerpts From SoCalMountains Chat/Forums –

Monday 17 September 2007 - 06:34:19
OK - AM visual. I see not plumes of smoke from my vantage point (but remember - I'm WAY OVER ON THE EAST END OF TOWN). I'm about as far away as you can get from the fire's location - so this is just a "visual from my location"

Monday 17 September 2007 - 06:41:59
I just saw a live report on Channel 7 from Lakeview. In the background - across the Artic Circle- you could see flames burning along Hwy 18

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:11:30
right across the lake in big bear lake, im across from greys peak - fawnskin is to my right from looking out side, yes smoke is building ,,

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:11:42
Last night the smoke was all around the valley. Heavy in some places. Light in others.

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:14:16
XXX went down the hill to apple valley about 5pm yesterday, he said the smoke was so thick around the m plant, couldn't breathe or see.
Butler #2 Fire CDF UPDATE:
Name: Butler #2 Fire
County: San Bernandino County
Administrative Unit: San Bernandino National Forest
Status/Notes: 12% contained - 15,433 acres - North of Big Bear
Date Started: September 14, 2007 1:51 pm
Last update: September 17, 2007 7:30 am
Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:30:32
Hey all, I have sure appreciated the info that you are putting out this morning. I live in Lucerne Valley in the voluntary evac area. We have fire spotting on the hill just north/west of the OMYA quarry. I work at the Mitsubishi plant and we still have quite a bit of smoke, but nothing like we had at home on Saturday. Our schools are all open this morning. My concern is where is the fire this morning and does it look like it will crest our mountains which are Sentinal at OMYA's quarry and White Mountain.

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:30:42
torw-(Ground unit) It's closing in on Gray's Peak, but probably still about 1/2 a mile away from the line; I can use some heavy helicopters or whatever you can get in here. That, and the part to the west is a priority

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:38:37
hope they can get serious air strike going while the GIANT is still slumbering!

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:38:39
per scanner fire looks to be still at the rim will need lots of buckets for this

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:50:12
My husband is driving down Hwy 38 and is at Camp Angeles. He just called to tell me that there is a fire due North of Camp Angeles. He is watching it now. It is definately a new fire according to his visual from Camp Angeles

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:50:38
per scanner - you saw it on top then, response ?yea it looks pretty easy, air to air is really bitchen right here now - helos are lifting off the big bear air port


Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:57:40
did they ever catch the guy in camo yesterday?

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:58:34
as far as i know yes , this man is toast

Monday 17 September 2007 - 07:59:56
what was the man in camos??

Monday 17 September 2007 - 08:02:35
XX, supposedly, he was starting fires??

Monday 17 September 2007 - 08:02:38
he was seen few days ago trying to start a fire down on hwy 138, but didn’t

Monday 17 September 2007 - 08:03:35
man in camos??? - camp angeles fire???

Monday 17 September 2007 - 08:04:05
XX ..... my hubby just double checked but the fires people are seeing from Angelus Oaks is the Butler fire above the arctic circle. I know it seems out of place but you can actually see it from this angle. No other fires working in our mountains other than the Butler fire!!

Monday 17 September 2007 - 08:06:53
would be fun being the deputies doing a jail transfer on that guy
Monday 17 September 2007 - 08:15:48
The retardant line is being laid down just north of the government leased cabins on the North Shore near the dam.

Monday 17 September 2007 - 08:43:08
im back from the dam, ( fiire has not crossed over the dam meaning to the other side, they do have the helos and air craft doing drops, a team of engins went towards the dam they may be staging there unknown,,

my end of the valley is getting heavy with smoke and sky is getting darker ,
the houses near the dam are fine,, i just came from there this fire is over the next ridge and helos are doing a great job geting work down it doesnt look any way as mean as it did yesterday,, except the valley is getting the heavy smoke,, lite winds coming up, over my way,, but as to the homes this side of the dam , they are fine,,
ffs have been putting retardant on that ridge that goes down into those homes , like i said doing great in that area

Excerpts from the morning update at KBHR 93.3FM –

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2

Monday, September 17: Fire officials have asked the California Highway Patrol to close an additional portion of Highway 18. Little Arctic Circle will now be closed from the Dam to just west of Boulder Bay, to alleviate congestion in the area, as 10 helicopters will be pulling water from the west end of Big Bear Lake. Highway 18 is now closed from Running Springs to just west of Boulder Bay. Residents of this portion of Big Bear will be allowed access to their homes.

In other community news (updated at 11am) : The Big Bear City Community Services District will not be holding their regularly scheduled meeting this evening.
The VCA Animal Hospital on the North Shore has asked that those who have pets there, please come pick up their animals this morning.

Rocky Obliger, Deputy Chief with the San Bernardino National Forest and, as of this morning, the Incident Commander on Butler #2 Fire, says that this fire, currently burning approximately 15,400 acres, is unrelated to the original Butler Fire, which was sparked by lightning 13 days earlier.

The Butler #2 Fire, which was reported from the Butler Peak Lookout Tower spared over Labor Day weekend, was named Butler #2 because of its location, as fires are named for their geographical identity.

Since the original Butler Fire, Obliger points out, we did have two inches of rain in the fire area. “Right now,” he says, “we don't have an estimated containment date.” As of this morning, containment is still at 12% percent, though weather conditions have been favorable, and 2,245 personnel are on scene today, battling Butler #2 Fire, which remains the number one wildland fire priority in the nation.

No homes in the Fawnskin area have been lost to the fire, and residences are being watched by deputies of the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department. Captain Lee Watkins of the Big Bear Station reports, “I've brought in additional manpower to keep that area safe.

To date, there are unconfirmed reports that three sheds have burned at Camp Whittle. The Hanna Flat Campground was destroyed by fire on Saturday.

As there is no anticipated return date for residents of Fawnskin at this time, Postmaster Cynthia Crane of the Fawnskin Post Office tells KBHR that those who receive their mail from the Fawnskin Post Office will be able to pick up their mail at the Big Bear City Post Office (off Greenway Drive) from 1 to 3pm today, Monday.

Highway 18, down the front way remains closed to all traffic, from the Big Bear Dam to Running Springs, though residents of Green Valley Lake are being allowed access from Running Springs. At last night's Community Fire Information Meeting, Fire Information Officer Jim Wilkins said, “The fire has burned all the way down to the highway. There is no way to protect you from that stuff that's coming down.” That stuff is rocks, due to erosion, and debris from the fire. That said, CalTrans tells us that Highway 18, along Arctic Circle, will remain closed until at least Tuesday afternoon, though no reopen date has yet been scheduled.

Blog entry found on a link at the San Bernardino SUN -

Fire crews staging on Highway 18
September 17, 2007 11:08 AM

Crews are lining Highway 18 up to the Big Bear Dam to ensure the flames don't jump the road. The terrain west of the old Butler Fire burn area is too steep and rocky for crews to navigate.

"We're just letting it burn back down and patrolling from the road." said Mike La Nier, superintendent of the Groveland Hot Shots.

Tankers are dropping red fire retardant on brush bordering Highway 18 and some firefighters are concerned about the rocks and pine cones rolling down. East of the old Butler burn, give hot shot crews are cutting direct hand line around the fire.
--Stacia Glenn

Conservation Corps brings in recruits

The Inland Empire California Conservation Corps has brought in dozens of men and women ages 18 to 25 who are seeking careers in forestry or firefighting.
They deliver supplies, bag the trash, run errands, and fill up gas tanks.
“I’m learning more about my surroundings, about my environment,” said Trevelle Denn, 22, of San Bernardino. - The corps recruits sleep in tents on the hillside behind Snow Valley Ski Lift with fire personnel.
And what have they learned? - “Fighting fires is a lot of work and time,” said Jon Davis, 19, of Mareno Valley.
- Stacia Glenn

Spotter plane has engine failure and has to put down in field:

Red and white USFS spotter plane reported engine failure over the lake, 'put it down' in the field; pilot is out of the plane at this time - Image Credit: SKYPROS - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

Excerpts From SoCalMountains Chat/Forums –

Monday 17 September 2007 - 13:17:36
sorry it was one of the seats p3 plane that had engine failure landed in a field behind big bear choppers

Monday 17 September 2007 - 13:17:39
Plane crash at Fox Farm Rd. & Sandalwood Dr

Monday 17 September 2007 - 13:17:44
Crash was at Fox Farm and Sandelwood. Going to hold ALL aircraft at San Bernardino for now.

Monday 17 September 2007 - 13:19:19
Per Scanner: Pilot appears to be out and alive. Aircraft smoking. Sounds like it went into a field.

Monday 17 September 2007 - 13:19:29
Red and white USFS spotter plane reported engine failure over the lake, 'put it down' in the field; pilot is out of the plane at this time.

Monday 17 September 2007 - 13:20:37
Pilot is Ok, official report.

Monday 17 September 2007 - 13:25:26
Hard landing behind the hospital, right behind Interiors..

Monday 17 September 2007 - 13:25:51
P/Scanner - Pilot is ambulatory, plane is in 1 piece.

Image Credit: SKYPROS - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

Monday 17 September 2007 - 13:35:55
Folks, relax, the pilot of the Single Engine Aircraft if fine, he had a rough landing it sounds like behind Interiors, walked away more or less, the fire remains the focus which has NOT pushing into Fawnskin which remains the main concern now....

Photo shots from Green Valley Lake with the fire almost due east about two to three miles away. These shots were posted at 4:58 PM PST - Image Credit: DepotJim - SoCalMountains Chat/Forums

Monday 17 September 2007 - 16:11:09
Green Valley Lake update: We have 2 helicopters using the lake for refilling their buckets. They are in every 5 minutes or less. We can't actually see where they're dropping it due to the smoke coming off the East side of Crafts peak

Monday 17 September 2007 - 16:12:22
When I first went out there 25 minutes ago, it looked easily under control. Within 10 minutes it looked like they were dropping gas on it instead of water (I believe the wind picked up). I just left and it looks to have died down a little, but it is definitely moving East/NEast

Monday 17 September 2007 - 16:13:01
I could understand if they
[GVL] wanted to evacuate because it sounds like WWII out here. In between the helicopters we have the big planes flying over

Hand crews have been creating defensible space around homes in Fawnskin today. Image Credit: KBHR 93.3FM

Excerpts from the evening update at KBHR 93.3FM –

Recap/update as of 5pm Monday, September 17: The Butler #2 Fire remains the number one wildland fire priority in the nation, though fire officials report good progress on the fire today.

The active fire is now 2 ½ miles west of Fawnskin, which is much improved from yesterday's report that the fire was just a half mile west of the community on the North Shore. Official statistics on the fire have not been updated in recent hours, though the fire has stayed within the perimeter established by fire personnel, 2,245 of which have been on scene today. Current statistics remain at 15,433 acres burned and 12% containment.

As of this morning, the nation's Incident Management Team 1 assumed leadership of the Butler #2 Fire, and fire crews from throughout the state of California are here in the Big Bear Valley.

Fire officials report that containment efforts to the north have been successful, and the west-bound perimeter of the fire has also seen considerable progress today. Word is that fire crews expect to have the upper hand in fire suppression efforts later today, or tomorrow.

John Miller of the U.S. Forest Service reports that the following fire suppression crews and equipment are on scene: 102 hand crews of 20 members each, 10 helicopters, 12 airtankers including the DC-10, 250 fire engines, 33 water tenders, and 12 dozers.

Little Arctic Circle was added to the Highway 18 closure (from Running Springs) to ensure public safety and relieve congestion at the west end of Big Bear Lake, where helicopters have been retrieving water for fire suppression. CalTrans tells us that there is no estimated reopen date for Highway 18 down the front way.

Fire crews have been creating defensible space around homes in Fawnskin, by clearing vegetation and removing duff.

Sheriff's Deputies are also in the neighborhood, to ensure the safety of residences. There are still no reports of structural loss, aside from an unconfirmed report that three sheds at Camp Whittle have burned.

There is no estimated return date for residents of Fawnskin, though mail pick-up for evacuees will be available at the Big Bear City Post Office each day, from 1 to 3pm.

Bear Valley Unified School District has announced that there will be school tomorrow, Tuesday.

Up date as Monday at 9:00pm; The Butler 2 fire is now 53% contained, 2505 personnel are assigned to fight the fire.

The updated acres burned to date have been reduced to 14,039. The Butler 2 fire continues to be the top fire incident in the nation thus garnering the necessary resources to battle the fire.

The south and southeast flank of the fire perimeter along highway 18 and 38 seem to be the most stubborn areas as they also contain some the most rugged terrain. Fire fighters from around the state are assisting in this fire fight.

Where threatened structures are located fie fighters are removing flammable vegetation, creating defensible space and then positioning them selves between the fire and exposed structures in order to provide a greater degree of protection against an advancing fire.
Reference Here>>


Butler Peak Fire Links (all postings):

Butler Peak Fire Incident #1 (Labor Day Weekend 9-2-07) & #2 – Saturday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Sunday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Monday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Tuesday

Butler Peak Fire Incident #2 – Wednesday (final)